Eurofed
Banned
Oh well, I'm fed up with this map dispute. <flips a coin> OK, your last proposal is adopted. Blame the fates, not me, if you disagree.
United States of the Americas and Oceania Version 2.0
- Thread starter Eurofed
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Oh well, I'm fed up with this map dispute. <flips a coin> OK, your last proposal is adopted. Blame the fates, not me, if you disagree.
Eurofed
Banned
This makes me much glad.
Then this issue is settled to everyone's apparent satisfaction.
Tubby.twins, you may proceed to update your interactive 1862-1898 maps with the new versions.
Is Liberty City to be on the shoreline but more inward? If so, I think OTL Panama's Lago Gatun in the Colon province is quite a decent choice: it's accessible by sea, but it's quite far inland. Of course, it's pretty darn close to both sides of the ocean, so an oceanic siege (if the enemy somehow manages to pull it off) would be a rather glaring issue. Just my 2 cents though.
Eurofed
Banned
Duly taken into account.
Well, I was thinking that it could be mentioned into some future update when I chronicle future territorial developments of the USA. E.g. Goias, and perhaps Mato Grosso as well, are expected to become US states with future development (a broad analogue of the OTL creation of Brazilia, only enhanced and accelerated) in a generation or two. I could then mention at that point that Amazonia is instead set up as a natural preserve. After all, it is not necessarily done at the beginning of the US committment to conservationism in the Progressive Era.
Eurofed
Banned
A nice suggestion, but off the mark. It is now an established TL fact that the USA build the Nicaragua Canal, not the Panama one, and Liberty, DC is built nearby the Nicaragua Canal.
Hey. Be fair. By 2000 the area should have a six-digit community at least.
As for a possible reason why people might eventually move to the Northern Northity North of North America, here's a quote I snatched from Encyclopedia Britannica:
Aside from its people, Nunavut’s greatest economic asset is its mineral wealth, which includes reserves of iron and nonferrous ores, precious metals and diamonds, and petroleum and natural gas. Exploitation of those resources is hampered, however, by high production costs and transportation difficulties. The federal government has participated in resource development mainly by providing infrastructure and assisting in the search for minerals. In addition, government agencies produce and distribute electric power throughout the territory. The government and its agencies are a major source of employment and income for the territory.
So, people might not be moving there right now, but when technology makes it feasible to go there, you can bet that they'll be rarin' to go.
Admittedly, if the statehood of Klondike(or whatever) was to happen in your TL based on the abundant natural resources available there, it would have to happen at the very end of it.
Hey. Be fair. By 2000 the area should have a six-digit community at least.
As for a possible reason why people might eventually move to the Northern Northity North of North America, here's a quote I snatched from Encyclopedia Britannica:
Aside from its people, Nunavut’s greatest economic asset is its mineral wealth, which includes reserves of iron and nonferrous ores, precious metals and diamonds, and petroleum and natural gas. Exploitation of those resources is hampered, however, by high production costs and transportation difficulties. The federal government has participated in resource development mainly by providing infrastructure and assisting in the search for minerals. In addition, government agencies produce and distribute electric power throughout the territory. The government and its agencies are a major source of employment and income for the territory.
So, people might not be moving there right now, but when technology makes it feasible to go there, you can bet that they'll be rarin' to go.
Admittedly, if the statehood of Klondike(or whatever) was to happen in your TL based on the abundant natural resources available there, it would have to happen at the very end of it.
I agree..., it could happen.... but I've thought about the same thing..., it could happen at the very end of the timeline... With a larger population of North American than OTL's..., it could really happen...
And I'm not sure it would be possible to take such a large forest out of the hands of loggers if it isn't done at the begining when conservationism comes into it's own and temporarily eclipses other issues.
Eurofed
Banned
Perhaps, but be mindful that I've also adopted the butterfly of hemp remaining legal and displacing pulp wood for papermaking.
"The President spurred the Congress to enact a far-reaching and integrated program of conservation, reclamation and irrigation of American land, and establish a national park service. An important side effect of the Progressive conservation program was to give momentum to widespread industrial use of hemp to displace pulp wood. "
This should considerably reduce the lobbying powers of loggers. Now, if you still deem the Amazonia preserve should be created in the Progressive Era for optimal plausibility, I find it feasible under the right circumstances, and I might add a mention of it in the above paragraph.
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Eurofed
Banned
Hey. Be fair. By 2000 the area should have a six-digit community at least.
As for a possible reason why people might eventually move to the Northern Northity North of North America, here's a quote I snatched from Encyclopedia Britannica:
Aside from its people, Nunavut’s greatest economic asset is its mineral wealth, which includes reserves of iron and nonferrous ores, precious metals and diamonds, and petroleum and natural gas. Exploitation of those resources is hampered, however, by high production costs and transportation difficulties. The federal government has participated in resource development mainly by providing infrastructure and assisting in the search for minerals. In addition, government agencies produce and distribute electric power throughout the territory. The government and its agencies are a major source of employment and income for the territory.
So, people might not be moving there right now, but when technology makes it feasible to go there, you can bet that they'll be rarin' to go.
Admittedly, if the statehood of Klondike(or whatever) was to happen in your TL based on the abundant natural resources available there, it would have to happen at the very end of it.
Well, I may agree that with TTL 2000s technological advances,abundant natural resources of the area, and a one-billion US population, it might be plausible that enough people relocate in Klondike at the very end of the TL to make worthy of becoming a few states. Conceded. But it is still a century away at this point of TL development, so no need to worry about the details of it (state borders and the like, Klondike is still too big to become one state) for a good while yet.
Yap...., it's my suggestion... besides... you can't take away marijuana with Native Americans that are widely using it and were more numerous in TTL lobbying for its continued legalization... with libertarians on both parties supporting the measure as the illegalization of the useful hemp would infringe civil liberties in their opinion...
Eurofed
Banned
Yep, that too. With both butterflies (and the precedent of Prohibition stopped dead in the tracks) I see no difficulty with hemp remaining legal for all time.
In the case we decide Liberty should be a Caribbean port city (which ATM seems to be the slightly more favored option), this of course depends on where the Caribbean outlet of the Nicaragua Canal is located. This in turn depends on which river route is picked by the canal builders for the eastern half of the canal.
According to the wiki:
This means that if we make Liberty, DC a Caribbean port city, it would effectively become a wholesale rebuilding and expansion of Bluefields, Punta Gorda, or San Juan de Nicaragua. By looking at a map of Nicaragua, it seems to me that the best (most defensible) location would be Bluefields, since it is a good harbor.
Alternatively, we can still make Liberty, DC a port city of sorts by placing it someplace on the shores of Lake Nicaragua.
As I've seen the map, I think the Punta Gorda route is more straightforward route to the Caribbean from the Pacific considering that the one which is going to be used in the Pacific to Lake Nicaragua route is the Rivas route... There's that island in the lake making the route to Bluefields sort of blocked unless you circled around the island.... but the Bluefields location for the capital is good... though it's far away from the location of the canal... so at least the Lake Nicaragua location for the capital is the far better one than the Bluefields... if the canal is going to pass through Punta Gorda... if it's going to be through the Rio de Escondido then the Bluefields location is the one I'm going to lobby for the capital...
But the Punta Gorda canal route and a Lake Nicaragua Liberty DC is the one I'm going to lobby... since it would mean that it is sort of in the middle of America...
But the Punta Gorda canal route and a Lake Nicaragua Liberty DC is the one I'm going to lobby... since it would mean that it is sort of in the middle of America...
Eurofed
Banned
If we want Liberty, DC to be a Caribbean port, then Bluefields is the optimal location and I'm going to have the Rio Escondido route picked for the canal by the Congress, of course.
If we want Liberty, DC to be a Lake Nicaragua port, then the Rio Punta Gorda route may be the best one for the canal and I may have it picked instead.
The island in Lake Nicaragua is not a significant problem IMO either way. Ships traveling the canal may navigate around it with ease in any case and it would not add much to travel times.
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Hmmm... Ok, if you say so..., so this is going to be a poll between your readers then ah...
Ok... Here's my vote:
Liberty DC as a Lake Nicaragua port city...
Agreed. A Lake Nicaragua port city would be for the best. Albeit for a reason that I didn't realize until just now.
I'm pretty sure that Central America gets its ass whooped by hurricanes regularly.
It's almost a big enough deterrent that I'd say it'd be better not to build a new capital in Central America at all. But if it's truly unavoidable, then the capital needs to be as far inland as possible.
Eurofed
Banned
To be honest, I was oblivious myself to the hurricane problem till you mentioned it. But by this point, so much development has been invested in the new capital issue that I'm extremely reluctant to undo it. I shall have to assume that butterflies make the US public opinion neglectful of the hurricane risk. Nonetheless, it is such a compelling argument that it makes me strongly leaning to the Lake Nicaragua port location.
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Me too..., I've never realized it until it was mentioned... So let's settled it then..., It's going to be near the canal on the shores of Lake Nicaragua... Shall we?
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