United states breakup: map suggestions

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1792 as of current suggestions

(for reference this is five years after the constitutional convention, plenty of time for things to deteriorate and get out of hand)
 
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i've been working on some flags:

north carolina.png

North Carolina (four stripes for the four corners of the state, based off of the Guilford flag)
south carolina.png

South Carolina (white stripe added to prevent showing too much blue when hoisting the flag)
rhode island.png

Rhode Island (they can't all be winners, especially Rhode Island, because they last four years)
Federal Republic of New England.png

Federal Republic of New England ( pine tree for New England, thirteen stripes to represent the legacy of the american revolution)
georgia.png

Georgia (three stars represent the three powers that have ruled over Georgia: Britain, The USA, and Itself.
the blue stripe represents the Mississippi river, Georgia's claimed eastern border
 
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i've been working on some flags:

View attachment 583219
Rhode Island (they can't all be winners, especially Rhode Island, because they last four years)
That's a nice one for RI, by our state flag standards. Knowing RI as I do, though, it would be just as likely they'd use the Regimental Flag or this one or a combo of them. Having said that, your design could work as a marine flag (which would make RI one of the few states, along with Massachusetts and IOTL also Maine, that have its own maritime ensign) as long as the anchor - long an RI symbol - is worked in somehow.
 
That's a nice one for RI, by our state flag standards. Knowing RI as I do, though, it would be just as likely they'd use the Regimental Flag or this one or a combo of them. Having said that, your design could work as a marine flag (which would make RI one of the few states, along with Massachusetts and IOTL also Maine, that have its own maritime ensign) as long as the anchor - long an RI symbol - is worked in somehow.
Those look pretty nice. Decorative, without being cluttered.
 
More Flags!
Confederation Congress.png

Confederation Congress (which is basically a 'friends with benefits' type of situation at this point rather than any type of unified state)
Virginia.png

Virginia (Jefferson and crew saw all the original distinctive flags and were like "nah I'll pass")
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New York (same as OTL)

the last one is an alternate idea for new york that i decided against
 

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Nice flags.

I saw this get brought up earlier, Georgia having trouble with the Native nation within it's claimed borders, and I have to agree. Georgia at the time was very much centered on the Savannah River and while it claimed to the Mississippi, the state couldn't really exercise power too far away from the coastal heartland. While I could see a push to actualize the state's borders to my knowledge the "Five Civilized Tribes" were still pretty strong, and without Federal troops they could very well repel any significant encroachment Georgia tries.
 
Nice flags.

I saw this get brought up earlier, Georgia having trouble with the Native nation within it's claimed borders, and I have to agree. Georgia at the time was very much centered on the Savannah River and while it claimed to the Mississippi, the state couldn't really exercise power too far away from the coastal heartland. While I could see a push to actualize the state's borders to my knowledge the "Five Civilized Tribes" were still pretty strong, and without Federal troops they could very well repel any significant encroachment Georgia tries.
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long term, without federal expulsion, do you think the Cherokee and others become recognized states?
 
That's a nice one for RI, by our state flag standards. Knowing RI as I do, though, it would be just as likely they'd use the Regimental Flag or this one or a combo of them. Having said that, your design could work as a marine flag (which would make RI one of the few states, along with Massachusetts and IOTL also Maine, that have its own maritime ensign) as long as the anchor - long an RI symbol - is worked in somehow.
rhode island.png

how's this?
 
,
long term, without federal expulsion, do you think the Cherokee and others become recognized states?
The larger native groups might eventually be recognised as states (the smaller ones might be forced to move), though a fairly compact area*. Georgia and North Carolina would take a long time to accept this, though, especially given they claim that land.

I'm wondering how many British-made guns will totally inexplicably end up in the hands of the natives? :p




*I'm thinking Lesotho/Swaziland-style enclave states.
 
how does the failure of the united states effect the french revolution
All of the problems are still there.

The Enlightenment writings that inspired the American Revolution still exist. The Declaration of Independence still exists, to act as a basis to an alt-Declaration of the Rights of Man.

French finances are in a terrible state, especially after funding the American Revolution.

The tax burden is still overwhelmingly on the common people of France. The bureaucracy is still incredibly corrupt. The prestige of the monarchy has still taken several hits. Marie-Antoinette is still very unpopular. Louis XVI's character won't be markedly different.

The price of food - especially of bread - is still an issue. There were riots over this issue in France.

The Laki volcano erupted in June 1783 - prior to the POD - and its resultant effects on the climate will still have an impact on harvests.

It might not happen in the same way as OTL, but I don't see the French Revolution not happening at all - not with a POD post-1783.
 
All of the problems are still there.

The Enlightenment writings that inspired the American Revolution still exist. The Declaration of Independence still exists, to act as a basis to an alt-Declaration of the Rights of Man.

French finances are in a terrible state, especially after funding the American Revolution.

The tax burden is still overwhelmingly on the common people of France. The bureaucracy is still incredibly corrupt. The prestige of the monarchy has still taken several hits. Marie-Antoinette is still very unpopular. Louis XVI's character won't be markedly different.

The price of food - especially of bread - is still an issue. There were riots over this issue in France.

The Laki volcano erupted in June 1783 - prior to the POD - and its resultant effects on the climate will still have an impact on harvests.

It might not happen in the same way as OTL, but I don't see the French Revolution not happening at all - not with a POD post-1783.
Agreed, but does a failed American experiment in democracy (if breaking up into smaller, non-monarchical units is deemed a failure- do all of them stay republics in one form or another?) change the goals of the French Revolution? Does it become less idealistic and more pragmatic coup? French Revolution is not my area of study, but I have been taught/acculturated to believe that the success of the American Revolution inspired a certain Enlightenment element in the FR to aspire for more than a change in masters and living conditions.
 
Agreed, but does a failed American experiment in democracy (if breaking up into smaller, non-monarchical units is deemed a failure- do all of them stay republics in one form or another?) change the goals of the French Revolution? Does it become less idealistic and more pragmatic coup? French Revolution is not my area of study, but I have been taught/acculturated to believe that the success of the American Revolution inspired a certain Enlightenment element in the FR to aspire for more than a change in masters and living conditions.
Jacque: now that we've put the king under house arrest, do you think we should do away with the monarchy?
Anre: nonsense! Just look at what happened to the americans!


All jokes aside, the french crown coming to the military and financial aid of a state that promptly collapsed only adds more fuel to the fires of anti monarchist sentiment
 
Places west of the Appalachians May break away due to feelings distance from the Planters on the coasts. Depends how much they help against Natives. Have the Five Civilized Tribes stay around in their homelands here?
 
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