United Netherlands

Being kinda new to this I don't know wether this has been done to death before but here we go:

What if, during the 1820's and 30's, a more sensible policy had been conducted by the the Netherlands Governement in The Hague regarding the Southern Netherlands. This especially regarding House Representation en taxes. In other words: what if King Willem I hadn't been such a big screw up. Could the Belgian revolution have been averted and could we see a United Netherlands ( consisting of Dutch, Belgian en Letzenburgan territory ) up till today??
Like to hear your thoughts:)

Regards,

Madmike
 
In An Alternate History of the Netherlands, I have divergances in the Dutch Revolt that leads to the United Provincs of the Netherlands, all seventeen of them.
 
Being kinda new to this I don't know wether this has been done to death before but here we go:

What if, during the 1820's and 30's, a more sensible policy had been conducted by the the Netherlands Governement in The Hague regarding the Southern Netherlands. This especially regarding House Representation en taxes. In other words: what if King Willem I hadn't been such a big screw up. Could the Belgian revolution have been averted and could we see a United Netherlands ( consisting of Dutch, Belgian en Letzenburgan territory ) up till today??
Like to hear your thoughts:)

Regards,

Madmike

Simply, yes. With a slightly smarter Willem I and future Willem II, that should be possible. Although Luxemburg would remain in personal union and would not be part of the Netherlands, although in time it might be fully integrated, if Prussia/Germany would be willing to allow it (which it did with Limburg for example).
 
In An Alternate History of the Netherlands, I have divergances in the Dutch Revolt that leads to the United Provincs of the Netherlands, all seventeen of them.
That could have happened too, (although it is certainly hard to get the southern Walloon and catholic provinces into the union. OTL it proved to be too hard to include most of Flanders and half of Brabant, both of whch used to be protestant and supported the revolt). But a union from the start is far from the same thing as a continued United Kingdom of the Netherlands.
 
That could have happened too, (although it is certainly hard to get the southern Walloon and catholic provinces into the union. OTL it proved to be too hard to include most of Flanders and half of Brabant, both of whch used to be protestant and supported the revolt). But a union from the start is far from the same thing as a continued United Kingdom of the Netherlands.


The Spanish did attack Catholic Netherlanders as well. In my case, Dutch nationalism (or rather an early form) was stronger than their religion, and all Dutch agreed to put religious issues aside until the Castillians were expelled.
 
The Spanish did attack Catholic Netherlanders as well. In my case, Dutch nationalism (or rather an early form) was stronger than their religion, and all Dutch agreed to put religious issues aside until the Castillians were expelled.
Well, it could in theory happen. The Dutch revolt was not a protestant revolt, but a revolt against too much Spanish influence in the Netherlands, if it moves away from protestantism and more towards liberty and lower taxes (10% taxes? how dare they), the OTL Union of Atrecht might join the revolt.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with the original topic, so I repeat my view that a continuing United kingdom of the Netherlands is possible in various ways, like a better policy conserning the southern Netherlands by Willem II, a less stupid reaction by future Willem II, a quicker reaction by Willem I and beating the Belgian revolt before it spreads, no French involvement, Prussian and Russian involvement, a delayed Belgian revolt, which spreads to the north and becomes a general liberal revolt (basicly the inverse as what heppened in my timeline), etc.
 
It might help if they could provide France and the others a reason not to intervene. The whole Belgian Revolution doesn't make much sense to me; so what if the king has a different religion. And making Dutch the official language would help in the long run by uniting the population under a common language.
 
It might help if they could provide France and the others a reason not to intervene. The whole Belgian Revolution doesn't make much sense to me; so what if the king has a different religion. And making Dutch the official language would help in the long run by uniting the population under a common language.
It wasn't a religious thing, Brabant, Twente, etc were all catholic and didn't revolt. It wasn't even a language thing, the Dutch royal family spoke french, like all upper class. It was an influence thing (although I must admit religion and language did play a role, although a smaller one than people usually think). The problem was that Belgium had less influence in Dutch politics than the northern Netherlands, although it had more people living there and it was wealthier than the northern Netherlands (interestingly neither are currently true anymore).
 
Would moving the capital to Brussel have helped integration? A place much more suited for being a capital then is The Hague anyway.. Or a more neutral, artificial capital, somewhere in the vincinity or Turnhout for example...Can you imagine a Brabantesque Brasilia...

Regards,

Madmike
 
Would moving the capital to Brussel have helped integration? A place much more suited for being a capital then is The Hague anyway.. Or a more neutral, artificial capital, somewhere in the vincinity or Turnhout for example...Can you imagine a Brabantesque Brasilia...

Regards,

Madmike

Actually the capital was Brussels. The UK of the Netherlands had 2 capitals, Amsterdam and Brussels.
 
Brussels as the only capital of the UK of the Netherlands would help a lot. And not half of the month the residence of the goverment and the other half The Hague.
It would also be heplfull if the King himself stayed in Brussel or its surroundings. The Habburgers buidl some nice Palaces in the 18th century.
Brussels is also a little bit more central than the excentric the Hague or Amsterdam.
It would also gieve a morale boost the the Southerners of beiing a real part of the UK and not an extension.
as stated in earlier treads with this subject. I think the best chance of surviving the Uk of the Netherlands is removing the future William II. He was everything the opposite of his father, weak, mentaly unstable, romanicus (in the bad sence) easaly influenced by others, and possible gay. No problem these days but in those days it made opportunities for blackmail.
There were several scandals around the crown prince, but for some reason William I never declined his olderson the throne in favour of his much more snesible younger brother Frederik.

Around 1830 there would be some unrest in Brussle and Liege, when in France a revolution errupted, but it this unrest never had to result in a sepperation or emerge of a new nation as Belgium. At the most a Federation will be setablished but even that is doubtfull when the Liberal industrialist in the South will get alarge part of their demands granted. After the unrest. And when industralisation in the South progressed and the fortunes of the Southerner industrialist, their influence in the UK will increase over the course of the 19th century.

Be aware a language problem was not at the order at that time, this is only a result of the Belgian revolt and the suppresion during the 19th and largly 20th century of the Dutch language (flemish) in Belgium.

Note that an Uk of the Netherlands could be a nation with a great potential. One of the first and biggest industrialised nations on the continent, combined with a 2nd largest colonial empire of europe (first half on the 19th century)
The combination of Southern industries and Northern colonies and trading experiance could give a sinergy. And when it comes to money and profit, religious sentiments will lose their sharp edges very fast in the lowcountries.
 
Just a question: moving the capital to Brussels couldn't cause unrest in the North? Would it be politically worth?
 
Just a question: moving the capital to Brussels couldn't cause unrest in the North? Would it be politically worth?
If Brussels is the Dutch capital from the moment of creation, I don't think so. Brussels was in theory the traditional captital of the Netherlands. If you decide to move it at a later point, the people in Amsterdam might dislike it, but I don't think the rest would care. I suspect they would only complain about the cost (they are Dutch after all).
 
Amsterdam was and is only in name capital, it never had and never have housed any goverment or adminstrative function in the Netherlands or the Republic. The goverment seat was The Hague. Amsterdam was and is the capital of the Netherlands only due to its size and economical importance. So if the Goverment wanted to have their meetings only in Brussles no body would care. Especialy not when the cost of moving the administration every half year would be saved.
The Hague would probably decline in a large village whitout any importance, which will experiance some revival as seaside Spa when this came in fashion, or as sea side retreat for the arristrocracy and rich.
Suppose the UK of the Netherlands will survive, there would be some unease feeling arise in Amsterdam when the citizens discover that their port funtions is eclipsed by Antwerp which had a much more better accesible port than Amsterdam. Certenly when ships will increase in size. Most likely any North sea cannal as build in OTL 19th century would probably torpedood by representatives of the South, as beiing not cost effective, perhaps later in the 19th century representatives could have aproval of the ''Nieuwe waterweg'' to provide an open sea entrance for Rotterdam in an attemped to have some major sea port developed in the North.
The whole North will lag a bit behind compared to the South whith its emerging (heavy) industry.
 
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?So what effect would this Stronger Netherlands have on Indonesia?

?Effect in any Great War between Germany/France?
?Effect on GW 2 v Japan?
 
?So what effect would this Stronger Netherlands have on Indonesia?

With close to twice as many citizens, I suspect Dutch colonization could be bigger, but I think the Netherlands will still focus on the colonies it has. Indonesia could be bigger and include Northern Borneo (but not Malaysia, as Malacca had been traded away before the Belgian revolt). Perhaps Eastern New Guinea will be included and the Solomons. Besides that I think (part of) Ghana could be Dutch, as the Netherlands still had some outposts there and perhaps some Pacific islands.
?Effect in any Great War between Germany/France?
?Effect on GW 2 v Japan?

The Netherlands could get involved in a war between Germany and France the same way Belgium did, but German-Dutch relations were always better than Belgian-German relations, so I am not so certain it would happen. Germany could try to convince the Netherlands to join them in an attack on France for the Dunkirk region (and maybe Lille, French Hainaut and Artois, traditional Dutch regions now in France), but the Netherlands didn't join the first world war for Flanders, so why would they join a war for those regions. I suspect the Netherlands will try to remain neutral.

The same could happen from France, France asking the Netherlands to enter the war against Germany for East-Frisia, Cleves and other German-Dutch border region, but I see no reason for the Dutch to accept as they never really were Dutch (except east-Frisia for a couple of years during the kingdom of Holland).

But as said, Germany (or France) could attack a neutral Netherlands, like Germany did OTL with Belgium. In that case the Netherlands will fight and retreat behind the waterline (which could have been extended to include Antwerp and the eastern part of Flanders. They will fight from their with whatever allies they have. The waterline will be a formidable defense barrier in the age before an airforce or paratroopers, certainly if it won't freeze over during winter (and even during winter I think it can be relatively easy defended by machineguns and artillery).

A war between the Netherlands and Japan? With a POD around the early 19th century the possibility could be butterflied away. If it isn't, the Netherlands and Japan were very friendly during the 16, 17th and early 18th century, so an alliance could be as likely as enimity. If it came to a war, the Dutch fleet will be stronger as OTL. Would they be able to beat the Japanese? Well it all depends on the butterflies. Is the Netherlands occupied during the war, what allies does the Netherlands have, etc.
 
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