United Netherlands WW2
- Thread starter Fex
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I assume you don't mean a united kingdom of the Netherlands that does not lose Belgium in 1830. In that case the only way to see a sort of unification is by a Netherlands that is invaded by Germany in WWI. Since the Netherlands and Belgium have similar experiences, they decide to cooperate, especialy on a military level (basicly they form an alliance). Luxemburg joins the club too, although it doesn't contribute much.
I did mean it as that the Netherlands never lost Belgium in 1830 and stayed a single nation
While the 1830 option, may be the obvious one, I don't think a post WW1 co-operation, leading to a co-federation, is impossible - a sort of Benelux twenty years early.
Though the final outcome, may not be too different, the repercussions may be bigger e.g. end of hostilities on the continent likely to be later, Free 'Benelux' forces would be bigger than OTL.
Though the final outcome, may not be too different, the repercussions may be bigger e.g. end of hostilities on the continent likely to be later, Free 'Benelux' forces would be bigger than OTL.
Well..., if the Netherlands and Belgium remain one nation, there will be no Nazi's and European history will be very very different.
Cooperation? Certainly. An alliance yes. a co-federation? No, not in only 20 years. After WWII, yes I can see it happen, but not during the interbellum.
This sounds like it would be an utter mess.
This country/confederation would have two mostly (defensibly) disconnected regions to defend; Holland and central Belgium. A Meuse-to-Holland line is way too close to the German border to be practical, and while a Rotterdam-Zeeland-Antwerp line can be held it effectively splits the organisation in two. There are defensible regions inbetween, but they're all defensive in the sense of being fortifyable by a strong army, not in the sense of being a defensive barrier without work.
If it's a 1830 victory by Holland/Netherlands it might lead to a situation where the country can pick to only defend Holland, creating a massive gap in any French-German conflict as they leave the Belgians wide open (there'll be token forces, sure, but...). If somehow it's a mostly-Belgian affair a defense focused in Belgium might have some chance with Holland as a northern bulwark expected to slow but not hold.
This country/confederation would have two mostly (defensibly) disconnected regions to defend; Holland and central Belgium. A Meuse-to-Holland line is way too close to the German border to be practical, and while a Rotterdam-Zeeland-Antwerp line can be held it effectively splits the organisation in two. There are defensible regions inbetween, but they're all defensive in the sense of being fortifyable by a strong army, not in the sense of being a defensive barrier without work.
If it's a 1830 victory by Holland/Netherlands it might lead to a situation where the country can pick to only defend Holland, creating a massive gap in any French-German conflict as they leave the Belgians wide open (there'll be token forces, sure, but...). If somehow it's a mostly-Belgian affair a defense focused in Belgium might have some chance with Holland as a northern bulwark expected to slow but not hold.
what do you mean no Nazi's? What has the Netherlands and Belgium to do with them?
I know that in ww1 Germany invaded Belgium to attack France and they just as well could have done that with the united Netherlands.
It would change the history of western Europe entirely. The industrial potential of Belgium combined with the trading empire of the Netherlands would make a united Netherlands one of the richest and more important countries of Europe, on level with Spain and Italy. Actualy I think it would be more important than those two countries. That would change the political, diplomatic and stategic landscape of Europe.
One small example would be Luxemburg. Luxemburg would be treated like an integral part of the kingdom (like it was before the Belgian revolt). Since Luxemburg was part of the German confedaration that would change the internal politics of the German confederation. Maybe there would be a war like the Schleswig-Holstein wars over Luxemburg. Even if we ignore the more uncertain butterflies like these, it most certainly butterflies away the Luxemburg crisis, an important event during the unification of Germany and the Franco-Prussian relationship that lead to the Franco-Prussian war. That alone would change the latter half of the nineteenth century. A different (or no) Franco-Prussian war would lead to a different (or no) WWI. A WWI that includes a united Netherlands would be very different on its own. Would Germany still go through "Belgium" and so dragging all of the (now more wealthy and thus stronger) Netherlands into the war? In the end, history would be so different that the rise of Nazi party (or even the existence of the nazi party) would not happen or if smething similar happens it would be unrecognisable.
Deleted member 1487
First of all OP you need to put this in the pre-1900 forum because the POD is pre-1900. And then you'll need to accept that a United Netherlands would entirely change everything after the POD.
Definitely, it would probably be per capita one of the richest if they had both the Belgian Congo and DEI, plus the combined merchant shipping fleet and finance systems. Germany would really have to think very hard about moving on a United Netherlands in the 20th century and probably would have a great relationship with them, knowing that the Germanic Dutch wouldn't let the French through their country, nor the Germans, so the Schlieffen Plan is not viable from the get go. WW1 probably doesn't happen ITTL, not least because of butterflies.
Indeed. It might well prevent a united Germany.
I don't know about no Germany. With a POD arounf 1830, I think some sort of Germany will happen. For example, if we avoid the Fraco-Prussian war, we already have a North German confederation. With a better relationship with France, I could see Southern Hesse and Baden joining (both wanted too OTL) and later Würtemberg. Maybe Bavaria remains outside of here (they were always one of the most independent parts of Germany.
well the Franco-Prussian war started originally (in large part)over Luxemburg so if Luxemburg is in the Benelux state no Franco-Prussian war, and in the remote chance there is a large chance of British Intervention, ergo a different German reunification (if at all) and possibly no first war, certainly a different one and thus quite probably no Nazis..
Sorry mate, but a POD in 1830 could mean Hitler never being born, or being a girl, or could mean that Germany is never unified. There's no telling what could happen with a change so far back.