United Kingdom of the Netherlands discussion

But the British returning any Pre Napoleonic Colonies for nothing is highly unlikely. Trading them for other stuff maybe. DEI for South Africa maybe? Dutch Colonists back for Money producing Colony sounds plausible.
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
Yes, I don't think the Dutch post Vienna will be getting both South Africa and the East Indies, it'll have to be either one or the other.
 
Sadly I have to agree. Don't go overboard and create a Dutchwank. I doubt the British are going to return South Africa after the (failed in this case) Belgium revolution. They had already developed it too much and it was too useful for British India. There is a small possibility at the Vienna congress, but even then it was doubtful. If you want to keep a Dutch South Africa, use a POD before the Napoleonic wars, or maybe even during the wars as the Batavian Republic controlled the Cape for a while. I agree that would make it more unlikely for the Dutch to gain the Southern Netherlands somehow.

Besides that don't create a Dutch wank and give everything remotely possible to the Netherlands at Vienna, like the Rhineland, East-Frisia etc. The Congress of Vienna was give and take. Generally alot of lands were exchanged between the various countries. If you want to give the Netherlands some area (lets say East-Frisia), you have to give away some other area (lets say Luxemburg) to the one controling it (Prussia). In you scenario the Netherlands got a lot and gave away nothing. That is maybe possible for a big winner like Prussia, but the Netherlands was a defeated country that had been occupied by France and before that had willingly (more or less) cooperate with France. Hardly a victorious country.

At last I want to say, if you want to examine what would have happen if Belgium remains Dutch, a very interesting and often overlooked POD, don't try to add various to the POD, like giving the Netherlands the Rhinland, South Africa, etc. Focus just on a United Netherlands. On its own it has a lot of interesting possibilities: a more industrialised Netherlands, a large Catholic majority, alternate colonisation in for example Africe, tensions with Prussia/Germany over Luxemburg, possible inclusion in Franco-German conflict, etc.

So my advise is, let the British keep South Africa and western Guyana (there is a reason the British keptit and thus probably won't return it), let the Prussians keep the Rhineland and Hannover the Emsland. Just focus on the Netherlands that includes Belgium and keep building from there.

If you want a Netherlands with the Cape colony, create a POD earlier before or at the beginning of the French revolution. It is even possible for the Netherlands to gain the Souther Netherlands somehow in that scenario (although unlikely, as many influential people weren't interested in it, but a ambitious stadholder might be able to do it).
 
Thanks for the reactions. I know it is very close to a Dutch Wank.
My thought were:
1st the return of the Colonies and overseas possesions.
1814 Treaty of London:
The treaty returned the colonial possessions of the Dutch as they were at January 1, 1803 before the outbreak of the Napoleonic Wars, in the Americas, Africa, and Asia including the Cape of Good Hope and the South American settlements of Demerara, Essequibo and Berbice (later consolidated as Guiana), where the British retained trading rights. In addition, the Dutch ceded the island of Banca of the island of Sumatra in exchange for the settlement of Cochin in India and its dependencies on the coast of Malabar. The Dutch also ceded the district of Bernagore, situated close to Calcutta and all posession on Ceylon. The Dutch, abandoned their claims north of the Strait of Malacca and its Indian colonies in exchange for the confirmation of their claims south of the strait, as well as the British colony of Bencoolen.
The treaty also noted a declaration of June 15, 1814, by the Dutch that ships for the slave trade were no longer permitted in British ports and it agreed that this restriction would be extended to a ban on involvement in the slave trade by Dutch citizens.

2nd The Teritory of the United Kindom of the Ntherlands.
The 1st draft was drawn by William of Orange Nassau, in the Holand Memorandum, who would elevated to King of this new Nation.
This went to far for the Great Powers and should only be limited of a unifcation of the former Dutch Republic, Prince Bishopric of Liege and the Former Austran Nehterlands. The Ducy of Luxembourg would be a personle compensation for the loss Nassau.
How ever one of the mainissues at the Congress of Vienna were the Prussian claims on the kingdom of Saxony and the Rusian demands on large portion of Poland. This was oppsed by Austria who was backed by Great Britain and France. Under initiative of France they warned with war if Prussia and Russia pressed their claims, which was a bluff. Russia did not take this bluff and pressed the issue. prussia would het Saxony and a part of Poland and Russia get the most part of Poland.
Meternich the canselor of Austria, did now everything to reduce further claims of Prussia, by granting the former lannds of Julich, Cologne, Cleve and East Frisia ( former Prusian possesions) to the new Kingdom of the Netherlands. Drasticly reducing the new Prusisian Rhine province. The Netherland would also enlarged with Bentheim an a part oaround the river Eems. Hanover would keep thier possesions and would be enlrged with otherparts of the former Prince Bishopric of Munster and Paderborn.
 
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Colonial enlargement.
Cape colony:
Already around 1820 the Cape colonist came in conflict with the Xhosa, which lead to one of the first serouis colonial conflicts. In oreder to contain the Xhosa, gouvernor Herman Wilhelm Daendels the Dutch gouverment made funds free for the settlement of around 4000 settlers in this border teritory around the new settlement Christina haven (after his mother)
During the folowing decades more settlement followed as a policy to contain the Xhosa. In combination with the British settlements, since the 1830, further East on the coast of Natal, conflicts with the Xhaosa and later Zulu increased.

Gold Coast:
Lost their economic importance since the ban on slave trade due to the treaty of 1814. Afer many failed atempts cocoa, coffee, tabaco plantation emerged. The only succesful platiotions were run by mullato owners, and families who only worked with contract workers and did not had problems atrackting workers. An other growing economical factor was the demand for collored fabrics, produced in the textile mills of Ghent, Aals and other Flemish textile cities. This trade, amoung other industrial goods became very lucrative, which trigered the establishment of more trading post along the West African coast and trading houses along the river Congo as part of the large African trade settlement Kingdom of Loango, also known as the Kingdom of Lwããgu
 
Cape colony:
Already around 1820 the Cape colonist came in conflict with the Xhosa, which lead to one of the first serouis colonial conflicts. In oreder to contain the Xhosa, gouvernor Herman Wilhelm Daendels the Dutch gouverment made funds free for the settlement of around 4000 settlers in this border teritory around the new settlement Christina haven (after his mother)
During the folowing decades more settlement followed as a policy to contain the Xhosa. In combination with the British settlements, since the 1830, further East on the coast of Natal, conflicts with the Xhaosa and later Zulu increased.

Gold Coast and other African posts:
Lost their economic importance since the ban on slave trade due to the treaty of 1814. Afer many failed atempts cocoa, coffee, tabaco plantation emerged. The only succesful platiotions were run by mullato owners, and families who only worked with contract workers and did not had problems atrackting workers. An other growing economical factor was the demand for collored fabrics, produced in the textile mills of Ghent, Aals and other Flemish textile cities. This trade, amoung other industrial goods became very lucrative, which trigered the establishment of more trading post along the West African coast and trading houses along the river Congo as part of the large African trade settlement of Kingdom of Loango, also known as the Kingdom of Lwããgu.

South America.
The Western borders of the Colonies Guynee were not fixed, in order to do this in 1835 an expedition was made to Guyana and the result was the socalled Orinoco line. This border was from the start a dispute, firts between the new indepentend nation of Colomba and later Venezuela. This dispute draged on for many years unitlil the Federal war of Venezuela which lasted from 1863-1870. In a move of real politics and dived and conquer, the Dutch siezed the oprotunity, supporting one side and in the mean time fphiscal ocupiing large parts of Venezuela by means of block houses and military out post. The final border was agreed in 1870 by the treaty of Washington between both nations.
 
My thought were:
1st the return of the Colonies and overseas possesions.
1814 Treaty of London:
The treaty returned the colonial possessions of the Dutch as they were at January 1, 1803 before the outbreak of the Napoleonic Wars, in the Americas, Africa, and Asia including the Cape of Good Hope and the South American settlements of Demerara, Essequibo and Berbice (later consolidated as British Guiana), where the British retained trading rights. In addition, the Dutch ceded the island of Banca of the island of Sumatra in exchange for the settlement of Cochin in India and its dependencies on the coast of Malabar. The Dutch also ceded the district of Bernagore, situated close to Calcutta and all posession on Ceylon. The Dutch, abandoned their claims north of the Strait of Malacca and its Indian colonies in exchange for the confirmation of their claims south of the strait, as well as the British colony of Bencoolen.
The treaty also noted a declaration of June 15, 1814, by the Dutch that ships for the slave trade were no longer permitted in British ports and it agreed that this restriction would be extended to a ban on involvement in the slave trade by Dutch citizens.

I am not entirely sure, what did the Dutch offer in return for the Cape Colony and Western Guyana?
 
I am not entirely sure, what did the Dutch offer in return for the Cape Colony and Western Guyana?

The British were offered trading rights, free passagae of British ships, and all claims, trade treaties, trade post and forts on Ceylon, Mallaca, and India. More or less the same as in 1803. (a combination of the treaties of 1814 and 1824)
 
The British were offered trading rights, free passagae of British ships, and all claims, trade treaties, trade post and forts on Ceylon, Mallaca, and India. More or less the same as in 1803. (a combination of the treaties of 1814 and 1824)
I'm sorry, I don't think the British would accept that. Take your POD before 1814, somewhere around 1806 or earlier.
 
The South was lost fue to a well prepared ''uprising' by French ''Ratashist'' wishing to connect the South Netherland with France and a very clumsy reaction of the King and especially his oldest son Willem rederik.
Willem Frederik was wounded by a bullet in his shoulder at Quatre Bras. The overture battle of the Battle of Waterloo. Let this bullet hit some vital organs which after the poor lad died.
When an uprising in Brussle and liege start, as a small version of the French July revolution, the comanders of the troops nearby the cities will act swift and with tact after hte revolt falter before it get momentum. The revolutionairs behing it, like Charles Rogier, de Merode, Alexandre Gendebien and others were arrested or fled to Franche.
His younger brother Frederik Willem will be the next in line and will follow his father as King Frederik I which he will do until his death in 1881.
 
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