wasn't there a timeline posted where the united kingdom joins the united states after world war two because it is broke or am i going absolutely mad? or was this even a concept ever discussed. thanks.
United Kingdom invited to join United States...
- Thread starter ComradeFlyer
- Start date
Redbeard
Banned
I don't know of this being discussed seriously after the AWI, but a PoD having a power hostile to both USA and UK controll the European continent combined with a weakened British Empire would I guess seriously forward such discussions and have it materialising inside the plausible.
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
I think the UK would have to far more damaged politcally, economically and structurally before it formally became a state of the union and gave up all sovereign ambitions. Simply loosing it's empire, economic bankruptcy after a war, and being isolated from the continent after a Soviet/Nazi victory, would still not be enough to force the UK to become a state. It would almost certainly leave the UK being dependent and subordinate to the US to a great extent, but not to giving up it's status as an nominally independent nation.
I suppose if all of that happened, and the UK was invaded and/or bombed with nuclear weapons, having a significant part of it's population killed, including the entire monarchy and government. And if the US was instrumental in expelling the invading forces, protecting the UK borders and re-building the country, then the UK might become formally part of the US.
Of course, this is all from the UK perspective. Why would the US want the UK as a state when they could just dominate it as a protectorate?
I suppose if all of that happened, and the UK was invaded and/or bombed with nuclear weapons, having a significant part of it's population killed, including the entire monarchy and government. And if the US was instrumental in expelling the invading forces, protecting the UK borders and re-building the country, then the UK might become formally part of the US.
Of course, this is all from the UK perspective. Why would the US want the UK as a state when they could just dominate it as a protectorate?
That move in 1940 was just going to be temporary and it was not entirely seriously discussed, it was just a idea which De Gaule flatly said no to.
The UK would never join the US without us being totally destroyed, the UK and the US merging to form one country- maybe. But the UK outright joining the US- no way in hell.
Also the US would have to change a lot to invite Britain in the first place, it is the United States of AMERICA after all.
I think there was a topic on this some time ago, someone posted a link to the website of some nutcase who is taking loads of different countries joining the US seriously.
The UK would never join the US without us being totally destroyed, the UK and the US merging to form one country- maybe. But the UK outright joining the US- no way in hell.
Also the US would have to change a lot to invite Britain in the first place, it is the United States of AMERICA after all.
I think there was a topic on this some time ago, someone posted a link to the website of some nutcase who is taking loads of different countries joining the US seriously.
Perhaps, had US and UK responses to events of the 1940's-1960's been different, some sort of permanent political union of the UK, its main english-speaking dominions, and the USA could have happened, but never by them becomiing states in the USA. It would make more sense to do this through a mechanism like the EU. Nonetheless, the center of gravity for this Angophone Union would almost certainly shift to North America, and it would make sence to place its honorary capital in Canada, not the USA. More interestingly, why not Honolulu?
Here's One Premise - Hitler orders Goering to have the Luftwaffe to launch a round the clock bombing campaign upon the UK in order to bring the Brits to their knees and finish them off to pave the way for Operation Sea Lion...
- Many British Airfields are blasted along with the radar stations
- Coventry, Manchester, and Birmingham are knocked flat. London's Big Ben, St. Pauls Cathedral, and Houses of Parliament are destroyed...
- Buckingham Palace is destroyed and the King and Queen are killed along with most of the Royals. Churchill is killed as well as many MP's and Lords when Parliament is destroyed
- Public Opinion in the US against helping the UK in the War evaporates. Many Americans are horrified by the pictures of the dead Royals and destruction of British Landmarks. Edward R. Murrows broadcasts of the Heartbreak and Mournfulness of the British people over the death of the King and loss of their Heritage helps turn the tide for intervention....
- Joseph Kennedy is recalled as Ambassador to the UK after he provokes British outrage with his suggestion that the British surrender unconditionally to the Nazi's. Kennedy is replaced by Cordell Hull who pleads with Roosevelt to send help in governing the leaderless and war shocked Brits. Kennedy is later gunned down in his car by an enraged Jewish man upset over the loss of his relatives in Poland to the Nazi's. Sadly Kennedy's sons, Jack, Bobby, and Ted die in the fullisade of bullets along with their Chauffer...
- Charles A. Lindbergh Jr. calls a press conference in Chicago, Illinois and announces that he will leave AMERICA FIRST as their spokesman and will return every honor he recieved from Goering and the Reich. Lindbergh also launches a blistering and damning verbal attack on Hitler and Germany stating "I no longer consider Germany to be the standard bearer of Civilisation after witnessing the Mongol Like destruction upon another great center of Western Pride and Brotherhood. Chancellor Hitler has proven to be the spawn of a parentage made up of a whore and her pimp. Therefore I call upon all decent minded American Citizen either Pro or Anti Intervention to denounce this gangster nation and support the salvation of Great Britain". Lindbergh also offers his services to President Roosevelt who is moved by his speech and promotes him to Brigadier General in the USAAF Reserves to serve in a time of national emergency....
- Roosevelt orders a General Mobilisation of all US Forces and informs Germany that the US will protect all British Possesions in the Atlantic and Caribbean. Roosevelt also tells Hitler to call off his Bombing onslaught or face both Economic Sanctions and Military Force....
- Hitler declares war on the US on November 11 1940. A US Destroyer is torpedoed and sunk along with a US Passenger Liner off the coast of NJ.
- Roosevelt orders US Military Units to immediately deploy to the UK and to help oversee the Administration of the Nation
- Cordell Hall given powers to act as Governor Protector of the UK and its overseas areas in January 1941. Under his benevolent leadership, Britain rallys on and rebuilds itself. Hull also calls for the Grand Union of the UK & US as one nation. British Opinion favours this ...
Anyone care to work on that framework ?
- Many British Airfields are blasted along with the radar stations
- Coventry, Manchester, and Birmingham are knocked flat. London's Big Ben, St. Pauls Cathedral, and Houses of Parliament are destroyed...
- Buckingham Palace is destroyed and the King and Queen are killed along with most of the Royals. Churchill is killed as well as many MP's and Lords when Parliament is destroyed
- Public Opinion in the US against helping the UK in the War evaporates. Many Americans are horrified by the pictures of the dead Royals and destruction of British Landmarks. Edward R. Murrows broadcasts of the Heartbreak and Mournfulness of the British people over the death of the King and loss of their Heritage helps turn the tide for intervention....
- Joseph Kennedy is recalled as Ambassador to the UK after he provokes British outrage with his suggestion that the British surrender unconditionally to the Nazi's. Kennedy is replaced by Cordell Hull who pleads with Roosevelt to send help in governing the leaderless and war shocked Brits. Kennedy is later gunned down in his car by an enraged Jewish man upset over the loss of his relatives in Poland to the Nazi's. Sadly Kennedy's sons, Jack, Bobby, and Ted die in the fullisade of bullets along with their Chauffer...
- Charles A. Lindbergh Jr. calls a press conference in Chicago, Illinois and announces that he will leave AMERICA FIRST as their spokesman and will return every honor he recieved from Goering and the Reich. Lindbergh also launches a blistering and damning verbal attack on Hitler and Germany stating "I no longer consider Germany to be the standard bearer of Civilisation after witnessing the Mongol Like destruction upon another great center of Western Pride and Brotherhood. Chancellor Hitler has proven to be the spawn of a parentage made up of a whore and her pimp. Therefore I call upon all decent minded American Citizen either Pro or Anti Intervention to denounce this gangster nation and support the salvation of Great Britain". Lindbergh also offers his services to President Roosevelt who is moved by his speech and promotes him to Brigadier General in the USAAF Reserves to serve in a time of national emergency....
- Roosevelt orders a General Mobilisation of all US Forces and informs Germany that the US will protect all British Possesions in the Atlantic and Caribbean. Roosevelt also tells Hitler to call off his Bombing onslaught or face both Economic Sanctions and Military Force....
- Hitler declares war on the US on November 11 1940. A US Destroyer is torpedoed and sunk along with a US Passenger Liner off the coast of NJ.
- Roosevelt orders US Military Units to immediately deploy to the UK and to help oversee the Administration of the Nation
- Cordell Hall given powers to act as Governor Protector of the UK and its overseas areas in January 1941. Under his benevolent leadership, Britain rallys on and rebuilds itself. Hull also calls for the Grand Union of the UK & US as one nation. British Opinion favours this ...
Anyone care to work on that framework ?
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Leej said:
I love this link
Not because I'm a expansionist, but because I think it's funny that anyone in this day and age is.
Short of near anhilation, no, nothing would induce the Brits to join the United States. Remember, they are every last bit as nationalistic as Americans.
I don't find it hard to imagine that other nations might wish to join the U.S. But it isn't going to be a nation that fairly recently ruled about 1/4 of the world's land area, and the entirety of it's seas. In fact, I think that Britain would be pretty near the top of my least likely to join the United States list.
A nation without a long history of Natonalism, or even as a nation, might consider petitioning for statehood. I could envision a scenario in which Haiti becomes a state in the future. Maybe a small war torn African nation we find ourelves occupying to keep peace, where tribal loyalties may run deep, but national loyalties run thin. Even Cuba as a state isn't too far fetched. There was even a time when this seemed likely. But I wouldn't look towards Europe when looking for a possible 52nd state. The Arab world wouldn't top my list of places to look either. I likewise don't see China as a strong possibility.
Yes, that's right, I said 52nd state. Puerto Rico is almost inevitible. Given the closeness of the vote the last few times they voted on statehood, sheer probability almost assures that the vote will go for statehood sooner or later.
I don't find it hard to imagine that other nations might wish to join the U.S. But it isn't going to be a nation that fairly recently ruled about 1/4 of the world's land area, and the entirety of it's seas. In fact, I think that Britain would be pretty near the top of my least likely to join the United States list.
A nation without a long history of Natonalism, or even as a nation, might consider petitioning for statehood. I could envision a scenario in which Haiti becomes a state in the future. Maybe a small war torn African nation we find ourelves occupying to keep peace, where tribal loyalties may run deep, but national loyalties run thin. Even Cuba as a state isn't too far fetched. There was even a time when this seemed likely. But I wouldn't look towards Europe when looking for a possible 52nd state. The Arab world wouldn't top my list of places to look either. I likewise don't see China as a strong possibility.
Yes, that's right, I said 52nd state. Puerto Rico is almost inevitible. Given the closeness of the vote the last few times they voted on statehood, sheer probability almost assures that the vote will go for statehood sooner or later.
I think there's been plans to make the District of Columbia & Guam states, as well as Puerto Rico. What is the status of the US Virgin islands?
Virgin Islands are too small. Only about 150,000 people. And Guam alone is only 166,000. If you'd add in american samoa, the marshall islands and other small island chains that are US territories, you'd still have less than 300,000 people. Compared to the smallest US state which is Wyoming at less than 500,000 then making states from those areas, just isn't going to happen.
D.C. and Puerto Rico are the only two territories/districts that are likely states at the moment.
Maybe the Virgin Islands would be added to Puerto Rico as one state. Or Guam could be made a district. But I don't know the guidelines for making another district instead of a state.
One thing to remember about puerto rico is that there's more puerto rican's living in the mainland US than in puerto rico itself. So those saying they vote against statehood because they don't want to pay taxes need to rethink that.
The main reason there's no push for them to become a state is because it would cost the US more money to turn them into a state than congress thinks it's worth.
D.C. and Puerto Rico are the only two territories/districts that are likely states at the moment.
Maybe the Virgin Islands would be added to Puerto Rico as one state. Or Guam could be made a district. But I don't know the guidelines for making another district instead of a state.
One thing to remember about puerto rico is that there's more puerto rican's living in the mainland US than in puerto rico itself. So those saying they vote against statehood because they don't want to pay taxes need to rethink that.
The main reason there's no push for them to become a state is because it would cost the US more money to turn them into a state than congress thinks it's worth.