UNITA/South Africa Victorious in Angola

Ok, I got a little side-tracked...

So, ''What if South Africa decided to occupy Angola?''
Would it have been worth it? The mineral resources of Angola are immense but I think it would be difficult to completely end guerilla warfare and the instability would make it tough to develop mines and oil industries etc. in Angola.

I doubt the international community would've liked this idea, as SA would then be in control of 3 African countries, including South-West Africa and Angola.
 
[QUOTE=Matt Quinn

However, the ANC did have links with Communist states and there are many hard-line types in it...one ANC MP said, "When Mandela dies, we will kill you whites like flies." Sounds ominous.

Matt I have seen this quote on the board often. However, I have never seen it quoted by reliable news media, nor can anyone name the ANC MP. I think its sensationalist rubbish in my opinion.
 
Hey Marius
what of do think of those other comments by our President? Sounds like Apartheid in reverse to me....''black empowerment'' and ''affirmative action''
 
Which society was freer, you think, the Soviet Union's or apartheid South Africa's?

Hmmm...well that a difficult question. Granting limited "democractic freedoms" to only 20% of the population at most is hardly limited "democracy", it is rule by a few, a minority and could even be termed an "oligarchy" if one looks more at what each word means, especially when those freedoms are race-based. True the whites could vote between a plurality of parties, but most of those parties spouted the same message and only one party really mattered from 1948-1994 and that was the National Party...kinda makes one think of the PRI in Mexico from 1921 onwards...
Also the USSR never restricted the basic reproductive freedom of its people. You could have as many children as you wanted with whomever you liked (so long as the person was of the opposite sex and not a close relation). In South Africa you could be jailed for having sexual relations with persons of a different race.


Apart from that, the idea of communists and terrorists infiltrating the Republic of South Africa directly from Angola is geographically impossible since they would first have to pass through South African occupied (after 1969 according the UN) South-West Africa/Namibia. South-West Africa may (or may not) be considered RSA territory (just as one may or may not consider Palestinian territories to be sovereign Israeli territroy). If one considers then ANC and SWAPO to be communist threats to South Africa just because the MPLA may have sympathized with them is stretching it. The ANC arriving in South Africa through Mozambique and traversing Rhodesia and South-West Africa is more probable. Also I would like to refer people to this site :

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB67/

which details Cuban involvement in Africa (the poor Cubans being demonized by everyone as usual, even though they were aiding Angolan independence movements (albeit leftist leaning ones)) and that the Soviets actually mistrusted the MPLA (so ideas of a Soviet supported monolith of African communist movements just seething to jump into South Africa and under the direct control of the USSR are...well...somewhat exaggerated)- see Document 3 on the website.

see also :

http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/angola/angola47.html

which interesting has the initial South African invasion force being made up mostly of Angolans...



At any rate, the question here is a South African occupation of Angola. Would it work? For a short time maybe, but I rather doubt the majority of Angolans will be entirely pleased with having the Portuguese leave and having Suid Afrika take their place as their masters. Most likely if UNITA is placed in power by South Africa and is perceived to be controlled by apartheid South Africa, the approximately 40% popular support they had will probably vanish in a few years and South Africa will face rebellion all over Angola by a reinvigorated MPLA which probably now has made a temporary alliance with the FNLA and what sections of UNITA dislike the South African influence.
 
Sean,

I never apartheid was good...it was an evil, racist system. However, Soviet Communism was more evil (apartheid's body count probably never numbered more than one million, while the Soviets' exceeded that of Hitler) and more dangerous to the US.

"Most likely if UNITA is placed in power by South Africa and is perceived to be controlled by apartheid South Africa, the approximately 40% popular support they had will probably vanish in a few years and South Africa will face rebellion all over Angola by a reinvigorated MPLA which probably now has made a temporary alliance with the FNLA and what sections of UNITA dislike the South African influence."

Yes...if UNITA is obviously taking orders from Pretoria, I imagine the people wouldn't like that. However, how much influence would the RSA have? I imagine Savimbi wouldn't be allowing the ANC and SWAPO to operate in Angola (which is probably the main reason RSA supported him); would RSA insist on micromanaging Angola or would they be like, "So long as guerrillas aren't using your country as a base, we don't care."
 
Matt Quinn said:
Sean,

I never apartheid was good...it was an evil, racist system. However, Soviet Communism was more evil (apartheid's body count probably never numbered more than one million, while the Soviets' exceeded that of Hitler) and more dangerous to the US.

Isn't that comparison a bit apples and orange though? The USSR controlled directly or indirectly almost everything from Berlin to the Aluetian islands. The Afrikaners apartheid system only controlled South Africa.

Just for my own curiosity, how would Indians be classified under Apartheid? Asians or coloureds or something like that? I think the system of apartheid is an abomination. Communism at least had some noble goals and did some good. Apartheid is just an ugly mix of eighteenth century racial theories and twisted Calvinist theology
 
"Isn't that comparison a bit apples and orange though"

My point was the difference of scale between Soviet Communism and apartheid, and how it would be wiser in the long run to ally with the lesser evil to fight the greater evil.
 
Under apartheid, Indians counted as Coloureds. They did not get political rights (voting, seats in parliament, etc) until the very end, when the apartheid regime was floundering, though they were under fewer restrictions than blacks.
 
I've seen some of CNN's "Cold War." It seems very good and well-made, though only interviewing some Afghan guy who opposed the Communists because "they were trying to change who is rich and who is poor" (such is allegedly against God's will) does seem a bit biased against the mujahadeen.
 
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