Here's the map of Africa. The Tuareg and Arabian tribes are areas that haven't been claimed by Europeans yet. Socotra has been given to Denmark because I wasn't really sure who to give it to, and it seemed like it would be nice to give them a sort of consolation colony. Britain probably sold it to Denmark at one point knowing that the island was basically useless strategically.
Union and Liberty: An American TL
- Thread starter wilcoxchar
- Start date
I wouldn't mind seeing the United States purchasing Belgian Congo, although I don't suppose Belgium would be particularly keen to get rid of it. Additionally, I didn't realize just how huge French Africa was until now. Wow.
Is there any chance we could get a religious update eventually? I would love to see if there are any movements gaining traction. It would also be nice to see how the Catholic Church is doing and eventually resolve the schism.
Is there any chance we could get a religious update eventually? I would love to see if there are any movements gaining traction. It would also be nice to see how the Catholic Church is doing and eventually resolve the schism.
Cool map! Original takes on the scramble for Africa are always welcomed.
I particularly like the enlarged Egypt. It is certain to become a regional power in the future. Of course things can change but I reckon this is setting it up towards a positive route.
Although it is interesting how Ethiopia not being there makes Africa look kinda... odd.
I guess unless France, whose possesions are huge, screws up the administrative/political divisions of the interior big time, it could lead to a stabler outcome for the continent. We shall see that.
There was one on the rise of the Catholic Church in the south not so long ago, I think.
And personally, I don't think the schism will ever heal. By now there is basically the Catholic Church in Rome, and a handful of crazy bishops in Tlaxcala who likely only have a following there, in a few Mexican Countries, and perhaps the Caribbean and/or the rest of Ibero-America. How much influence does the Temporal Church have in Mexico and region remains to be seen.
My guess is that neighboring rivals to Tlaxcala try to avoid it resulting in their neighbors and rivals adopting it.
I particularly like the enlarged Egypt. It is certain to become a regional power in the future. Of course things can change but I reckon this is setting it up towards a positive route.
Although it is interesting how Ethiopia not being there makes Africa look kinda... odd.
I guess unless France, whose possesions are huge, screws up the administrative/political divisions of the interior big time, it could lead to a stabler outcome for the continent. We shall see that.
There was one on the rise of the Catholic Church in the south not so long ago, I think.
And personally, I don't think the schism will ever heal. By now there is basically the Catholic Church in Rome, and a handful of crazy bishops in Tlaxcala who likely only have a following there, in a few Mexican Countries, and perhaps the Caribbean and/or the rest of Ibero-America. How much influence does the Temporal Church have in Mexico and region remains to be seen.
My guess is that neighboring rivals to Tlaxcala try to avoid it resulting in their neighbors and rivals adopting it.
I don't remember the bit about the South, do you know what update it was?
I think wilcoxchar mentioned a while back that he had thought up a solution for the Schism. While it's certainly plausible that he could have changed his mind it is not out of the realm of plausibility that the Church leaders will eventually come together to solve the decades old crisis. I'd also be interesting to see where the Church is ideologically.
Anyways I was just hoping for insight on more than just Catholicism, although I do find it fascinating. Are there any significant Zionist movements? What's been happening with Tibetan Buddhism? Etc.
Last edited:
Wilcox, is there any chance that France is planning or has made any efforts into building a trans-Sahel railroad?
I reckon they are in a good position to build it, and unlike OTL they don't have to worry about the British in Sudan. A second railroad from Alexandria to Fashoda/Kodok would also be very beneficial to Egypt. The French might be willing to give them that, if they help in clamming down any sort of rising in Sudan.
This is it: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=5151154&postcount=1718
I reckon they are in a good position to build it, and unlike OTL they don't have to worry about the British in Sudan. A second railroad from Alexandria to Fashoda/Kodok would also be very beneficial to Egypt. The French might be willing to give them that, if they help in clamming down any sort of rising in Sudan.
This is it: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=5151154&postcount=1718
Next update will be done by this weekend.
Great, looking forward to it! Nice map, by the way. What will the update cover?
Cheers,
Ganesha
The World in a New Century, Section XI: The Near East
Update's finished!
The World in a New Century, Section XI: The Near East[1]
Published by the McNally Corporation in Chicago, 1901.
Turkey in Asia:
The Turkish Empire in Asia is even more backward than the parts on the European continent. While Serbia and Rumania have at least some autonomy in their local affairs, the rest of Turkey is controlled directly by the Sultan and his viziers, or advisers. While Constantinople is very important strategically, the region of Anatolia across the sea is largely agricultural and has not progressed much. Only a few cities on the Aegean coast have grown large, including the port city of Smyrna. The interior of Anatolia remains primarily nomadic with livestock production as the main force in its economy.
Southeast of Anatolia, the Tigris and Euphrates rivers create the floodplains of Mesopotamia, the other major region of the Ottoman territories on the Asian continent. Mesopotamia had a very important role in the early history of civilization as the site of ancient Babylon, but it has recently waned in importance as the great empires of the region have crumbled and fallen behind European civilization. The area around the two rivers is largely agricultural like the rest of the Turkish Empire. Steamboats do run up the rivers from the Persian Gulf as far as the city of Bagdad. Also, with talks of construction of a railroad to connect Bagdad to Constantinople, the region could develop quickly within the next decades.
The Holy Land:
One of the most important regions of the Near East is the Holy Land or Levant. The region is called the Holy Land because it is the site of some of the most important places in the Christian, Jewish, and Mohammedan faiths. These include the cities of Jerusalem and Bethlehem, as well as the River Jordan and the Sea of Galilee. The Holy Land is currently divided between Turkey and Egypt. The Turks own the northern half, centered around Damascus and Beirut. The Egyptians own the southern half extending north from the Sinai Peninsula, and include Jerusalem and Gaza. The region has grown more slowly in the past century compared to previous centuries because of the political division and instability[2], but despite this thousands of people flock to the Holy Land every year on a pilgrimage to the many sites.
Arabia:
The Arabian Peninsula is the last civilized part of the Near East, partially owing to its geography. The peninsula is largely made up of a vast desert, so the only areas productive enough for sizable cities are on the coasts or in the high mountains in the south of the peninsula. Because of this, the majority of the peninsula is still populated by nomadic tribes and are not worth examination. The most well off part of the peninsula is in the western highlands and on the coast of the Red Sea. This section of Arabia is owned by Egypt. This region contains the cities of Mecca and Medina, the two holiest cities of the Mohammedan faith.
The remainder of the coasts of the Arabian Peninsula have been colonized by various European powers. These coasts are important in controlling the route between Europe and the Indies. France has colonized a territory on the southwest coast of the peninsula around the port of Mocha, giving the French control over both sides of the Bab el-Mendeb. The British have expanded from their base in the city of Aden along the southern coast of the peninsula. The German Empire controls Oman on the eastern end of the peninsula, as well as the southern cost of the Strait of Ormuz. Oman was one of Germany's first colonial enterprises and has been part of the German Empire for a few decades now. Further up the coast of the Persian Gulf, the British have recently created protectorates out of the emirates there, and has establish direct administration over the island of Bahrain.
[1] Interesting fact: the term 'Near East' and 'Middle East' didn't really have a definite geographical meaning until the Crimean War. I tried to come up with an alternate name for the region, but couldn't think of any I liked.
[2] OTL population of Palestine in 1900 was 600-700k, in TTL it's probably closer to 500k.
The World in a New Century, Section XI: The Near East[1]
Published by the McNally Corporation in Chicago, 1901.
Turkey in Asia:
The Turkish Empire in Asia is even more backward than the parts on the European continent. While Serbia and Rumania have at least some autonomy in their local affairs, the rest of Turkey is controlled directly by the Sultan and his viziers, or advisers. While Constantinople is very important strategically, the region of Anatolia across the sea is largely agricultural and has not progressed much. Only a few cities on the Aegean coast have grown large, including the port city of Smyrna. The interior of Anatolia remains primarily nomadic with livestock production as the main force in its economy.
Southeast of Anatolia, the Tigris and Euphrates rivers create the floodplains of Mesopotamia, the other major region of the Ottoman territories on the Asian continent. Mesopotamia had a very important role in the early history of civilization as the site of ancient Babylon, but it has recently waned in importance as the great empires of the region have crumbled and fallen behind European civilization. The area around the two rivers is largely agricultural like the rest of the Turkish Empire. Steamboats do run up the rivers from the Persian Gulf as far as the city of Bagdad. Also, with talks of construction of a railroad to connect Bagdad to Constantinople, the region could develop quickly within the next decades.
The Holy Land:
One of the most important regions of the Near East is the Holy Land or Levant. The region is called the Holy Land because it is the site of some of the most important places in the Christian, Jewish, and Mohammedan faiths. These include the cities of Jerusalem and Bethlehem, as well as the River Jordan and the Sea of Galilee. The Holy Land is currently divided between Turkey and Egypt. The Turks own the northern half, centered around Damascus and Beirut. The Egyptians own the southern half extending north from the Sinai Peninsula, and include Jerusalem and Gaza. The region has grown more slowly in the past century compared to previous centuries because of the political division and instability[2], but despite this thousands of people flock to the Holy Land every year on a pilgrimage to the many sites.
Arabia:
The Arabian Peninsula is the last civilized part of the Near East, partially owing to its geography. The peninsula is largely made up of a vast desert, so the only areas productive enough for sizable cities are on the coasts or in the high mountains in the south of the peninsula. Because of this, the majority of the peninsula is still populated by nomadic tribes and are not worth examination. The most well off part of the peninsula is in the western highlands and on the coast of the Red Sea. This section of Arabia is owned by Egypt. This region contains the cities of Mecca and Medina, the two holiest cities of the Mohammedan faith.
The remainder of the coasts of the Arabian Peninsula have been colonized by various European powers. These coasts are important in controlling the route between Europe and the Indies. France has colonized a territory on the southwest coast of the peninsula around the port of Mocha, giving the French control over both sides of the Bab el-Mendeb. The British have expanded from their base in the city of Aden along the southern coast of the peninsula. The German Empire controls Oman on the eastern end of the peninsula, as well as the southern cost of the Strait of Ormuz. Oman was one of Germany's first colonial enterprises and has been part of the German Empire for a few decades now. Further up the coast of the Persian Gulf, the British have recently created protectorates out of the emirates there, and has establish direct administration over the island of Bahrain.
[1] Interesting fact: the term 'Near East' and 'Middle East' didn't really have a definite geographical meaning until the Crimean War. I tried to come up with an alternate name for the region, but couldn't think of any I liked.
[2] OTL population of Palestine in 1900 was 600-700k, in TTL it's probably closer to 500k.
And don't forget to vote for Union and Liberty in the Turtledoves in these last few hours of voting if you haven't already! Right now U&L is only one vote behind first place!
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=226826
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=226826
I've already voted, but it's almost worth registering a sockpuppet just to make this race a tie. Just kidding, just kidding.
A bit ironic that very soon these nomadic tribes not worth examining will likely be able to hold the world's oil supply at ransom. (Unless Turkey or some European country controls Gulf and mayor fields).
So Kuwait has not been created? I reckon that without the Russo-Turkish War and without Austria pestering in the Balkans, TTL's Ottoman Empire is a bit healthier at this point than OTL? Even with a more powerful Egypt right next door. Whatever becomes of the Ottomans is going to be quite interesting, one of its biggest rivals is gone. Due to France's alliance with Egypt I reckon the Turks would be friendly towards Britain instead. Yet, Britain is growing close to Russia as well, which the Turks might not like. It is an interesting set up. We shall see in the near future.
The only alternative I could think off is Western Asia, or South Western Asia. Niether of which has a good ring. Personally Near East works much better than Middle East.
It looks like your ahead now.
Wilcoxchar, congratulations on winning the best continuing 19th Century TL. Cheers!
Well, the British currently control much of what are going to be the best oil fields; what becomes IOTL the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, and parts of Saudi Arabia. Germany, meanwhile, is right next door. I could easily see a strategic war fought between Germany and Britain over control of those oil fields. That war could stay limited or could be part (or the instigator) of a larger war, but right now, Britain has most of them. That could be a big boost to Britain's continued power if they protect and manage the fields right.
Oh, and very nice update, Wilcox, great as always.
Congratulations to you, Wilcoxchar! You fully deserve it!
Cheers,
Ganesha
