Union and Liberty: An American TL

Another thing to remember is that the population difference between California and the United States is much smaller that that of Tibet and China. If OTL demographics are anything to go by, the population of the California Republic by 1920 should be at least 5 million while U.L.'s United States should have at least 100 million. In comparison, the Tibet Autonomous Region (even with relatively extensive Han immigration) currently has almost three million people while the rest of the PRC has over 1.3 billion.



I would assume the American public's reaction would be similar to what it would be if Canada invaded the Idaho Panhandle in WW1. While the Canadians and Californians wouldn't cause extensive damage to U.S. infrastructure, the average American would still be pissed as hell if not screaming death to California/Canada. Also, the 1890s-1920s was the period in OTL that Yellow Journalism and Jingoism were at their height of popularity in the United States, so there's always that to consider.

Still, if Wilcox wants to get the American population's blood absolutely riled up, he could always have the Californian Army invade American soil first, massacre a couple of American villages/forts, and then declare war.

True, true. You raise some excellent points.

So the impression I got from the last California update (Part Forty-Eight on p. 39) is that the President of California seems to decide the country's attitude towards Britain and the US. So, if California has a particularly nasty president during the Great War, then I think a situation like the Pearl Harbor-esque one above (though maybe not on the scale of Pearl Harbor, but similar) would be very realistically possible.
 
Another thing to remember is that the population difference between California and the United States is much smaller that that of Tibet and China. If OTL demographics are anything to go by, the population of the California Republic by 1920 should be at least 5 million while U.L.'s United States should have at least 100 million. In comparison, the Tibet Autonomous Region (even with relatively extensive Han immigration) currently has almost three million people while the rest of the PRC has over 1.3 billion.

I think Wilcox mentioned California's population was a little above 1 million by 1900s. There has been significantly less population from the States into it, even though its been offset by increased immigration from Asia and Latin-America. But even if the population was 1.5 million, this is still a significantly smaller difference than Tibet to China. 1.5/100 against 3/1300 (=1.5/650). That is over 6 times the rate difference. The annexation of California will not come easily to the US.

Also it is always much more practical to leave the country independent make them pay compensation and handle their own war reparations than annexing it, eliminating their debt to you, having to manage their debt to other countries (unless others agree that you don't have to over a treaty), and dealing with an unhappy population. Ideally annexing it is a long term investment but I think it rarely pays. And this is something most writers of Ameri-wanks do not understand, a country might be smaller in territory and still be richer, more powerful and influential than the larger version.

Still, if Wilcox wants to get the American population's blood absolutely riled up, he could always have the Californian Army invade American soil first, massacre a couple of American villages/forts, and then declare war.

So the impression I got from the last California update (Part Forty-Eight on p. 39) is that the President of California seems to decide the country's attitude towards Britain and the US. So, if California has a particularly nasty president during the Great War, then I think a situation like the Pearl Harbor-esque one above (though maybe not on the scale of Pearl Harbor, but similar) would be very realistically possible.

That seems to be the case from the update. What I imagine is that California's government works like a series of semi-elected mini dictatorships. I am thinking Mexico during the PRI years on steroids. California's government likely only has one political Party (maybe a few tiny splinter ones that stand no chance and are really only there so the, let's call it, National Party pretends to have opposition). And the electorate is probably just an elite made up of a few thousand people, mostly due to a lack of infrastructure inland, because Mormons, Natives, and immigrants are likely to be excluded, and perhaps general indifference from the majority of the population.
So a President is "elected" by being appointed as a candidate by the National Party. Elections happen but the candidate stands no real opposition. There might be a scare every now and then when someone gets too close. Meanwhile, like early in Mexico's history during the PRI years, the legislative branch only has one chamber that works more like the local gentleman's club (I mean the upper class members only kind not the strip club kind) than a government body. The President being the public face of this club holds significant sway over most matters, since he is acting in the name of both the executive branch and the leader of the legislative branch of government. A decently popular president could easily cause the situation you describe, if he has the backing of the "club" and, with enough propaganda, the hearts of the people.
 
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I'm trying to figure out if and how I should divide up Oregon Territory. I'd like to make Vancouver Island a separate state, but I don't know how to divide up the mainland. Going along the 49th parallel kind of makes it looks too convergent with OTL. Dividing it vertically would be interesting, but there's not really a good natural line that divides it about equal and having a straight line there doesn't look very good. If anyone's familiar with the geography of the area, some suggestions would really help.
 
I'm trying to figure out if and how I should divide up Oregon Territory. I'd like to make Vancouver Island a separate state, but I don't know how to divide up the mainland. Going along the 49th parallel kind of makes it looks too convergent with OTL.

I don't know if it should be a separate state, IMO. How many people live there at this point ITTL? Does it have any precedent to be its own state?

If I were in charge of dividing things up, the island would be part of a new state consisting of the western coastal areas of the Oregon Territory, while the remaining eastern half can (eventually) form another state. If you're looking for a good geographical feature to use for a boundary, consider a line going north from OTL Kennewick WA (at the confluence of the Columbia and Yakima rivers). This would roughly separate the territory by climate, with Puget Sound, forests and the Coastal range in west and the high desert in the east.

Or, if you wanted it to seem less arbitrary, you could have the border follow the Yakima river for a while.
 
I'm trying to figure out if and how I should divide up Oregon Territory. I'd like to make Vancouver Island a separate state, but I don't know how to divide up the mainland. Going along the 49th parallel kind of makes it looks too convergent with OTL. Dividing it vertically would be interesting, but there's not really a good natural line that divides it about equal and having a straight line there doesn't look very good. If anyone's familiar with the geography of the area, some suggestions would really help.

If you want to make Vancouver Island a seperate state, then you'll probably have to do a North/South division instead of a East/West division. Still, I can understand your concern about the 49th parallel being too convergent, but I don't think it'll be too much of a problem.

After all, the 49th parallel currently does a nice job of dividing the Oregon territory roughly 50/50, and I'm sure there will be some ITTL who would argue that the 49th parallel should be used since it was the "historic" border. Besides, the way Dakhota's northern border juts into the Oregon territory, I would assumed that the use of the 49th would be the natural choice for a North/South division.

Still, if the 49th parallel is still too convergent for your tastes, perhaps you could use the 50th or 51st parallel?

Regardless how you divide the Oregon territory though, another suggestion I would make is to give the part of the Oregon territory east of the Columbia River and South of the 49th parallel to Dakhota...Just because. :p
 
I'm trying to figure out if and how I should divide up Oregon Territory. I'd like to make Vancouver Island a separate state, but I don't know how to divide up the mainland. Going along the 49th parallel kind of makes it looks too convergent with OTL. Dividing it vertically would be interesting, but there's not really a good natural line that divides it about equal and having a straight line there doesn't look very good. If anyone's familiar with the geography of the area, some suggestions would really help.

Vancouver Island as its own state makes sense and there is a historic precedent of it wanting to be its own province within Canada's confederation. Victoria (I am not sure if you renamed it) was certainly the biggest settlement at the time of the Oregon War although this is likely no longer the case. In the long run they will be a small state but it has still a larger population than OTL's Wyoming, Vermont, North Dakota, and Alaska. So it is not out of the question at all.

You could probably make 4 states out of the territory if you really want to.

Vancouver Island.

A coastal state centered in Seattle/Vancouver (I think you renamed them in TTL but I don't remember their names), made up of OTL's Western Washington and a small bite of BC.

A mountain state of OTL's Western Washington, the remainder of Idaho not in Shoshone.

And a northern state mostly made up of everything above the 49th parallel. Minus the chunks the other two decide to bit into.
 
A coastal state centered in Seattle/Vancouver (I think you renamed them in TTL but I don't remember their names), made up of OTL's Western Washington and a small bite of BC.

Vancouver is Langley. The rest I don't know, but I would think Victoria has been renamed, as TTL's US seems quite anti-British.
 
I had an idea for a north-south running dividing line. What about following the Okanogan River up to Okanogan Lake and Shoswap Lake, then roughly following the High Mountains up to the border at the 52 parallel. The only thing I'm not really sure of is where the border should go once the Okanogan meets the Columbia River. It could just follow the Columbia down to the border, but I'm unsure of how good that looks aesthetically. I've been using these maps for reference.

http://govdocs.evergreen.edu/wastate/wa1895.jpg

http://www.travelphotoi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/british_columbia_1896.jpg


Here's the rough border on the electoral map.

U&L Oregon Draft.png
 
Party Seventy-Eight: Silver
Update time! I hope I got the economic effects right. :p

Party Seventy-Eight: Silver

The Silver Depression:
Beginning in 1885, the discovery of new deposits of silver and gold in northern Kootenay reinvigorated the gold rush in the northwestern United States. Combined with other major silver discoveries around the world such as at Castroveta in southern California[1], silver production increased drastically from the 1880s to the end of the century. Annual global extraction of silver had been at approximately 30 billion ounces for most of the century, but annual production jumped to 120 billion ounces in the later decades. The Castroveta mine alone produced over 6 million ounces of silver between 1883 and 1900. The rate of silver production increased so quickly during the 1880s and 1890s that it caused a sudden collapse in the value of silver. Silver had stayed at approximately the same value from the 1780s to the early 1880s, but between 1886 and 1888 it lost almost a quarter of its value[2].

The sudden drop of the value of silver had a ripple effect that traveled around the world in the following years. The first sign of what would become a cascade of bankruptcies in the United States was the collapse of the Wheeling and Allegheny Railroad in March of 1886. The following year saw the collapse of several other railroads which had overextended themselves in the previous decade, and precipitated numerous bank runs as the value of the dollar continued to fall due to its connection with the price of silver. In early 1887, Secretary of the Treasury Morgan Comstock advised that the United States increase the amount of silver it purchased in order to increase the price of the metal. While a bill was passed by Congress to buy an addition million ounces of silver per month, it was not enough to counteract the fall of silver prices. Additionally, the effects of the Silver Depression in the United States had begun to spread abroad.

The first countries to be affected were those in east Asia and some of the Mexican states that were still on a silver standard. Japan and China were the worst affected countries in the late 1880s. Korea was quick to adopt the gold standard after it secured reparations from China after the Sino-Korean War and was less affected. When the depression hit Europe, most countries were only somewhat affected at first. Russia's economy barely fell during this period because of concurrent gold rushes in Siberia and Alyeska. But despite the depression ending in the United States in 1891, American and global economic growth remained sluggish for the next two decades. It would not be until the outbreak of the Great War that the global economy would completely recover from the effects of the Silver Depression[3].


Party of the People:
The end of the 19th century also saw a rise in the newly formed People's Party. Founded in 1886, the party sought to appeal to the many agricultural workers in the Great Plains and Old Northwest states. Like the Redback Party, the People's Party advocated for the removal of any metallic standard and the adoption of a paper currency. Other issues that the People's Party took up as part of their platform were the direct election of senators as opposed to state legislatures and women's suffrage.

Like many minor parties in the United States, the People's Party found much of its success through running for elections on fusion tickets. During its formative years, the People's Party co-opted the platform of the more established Redback Party in many states in order to gain at least some representation in the state and national legislatures[4]. In the 1888 and 1892 elections, the People's Party nominated James B. Weaver of Iowa for president together with the Redback Party. The success of the Redback Party in the Old Northwest and the People's Party in the Great Plains helped both parties nationally even though they were extremely small compared to the Democrats and Republicans. During the 1890s and 1900s, however, the People's Party began to absorb the Redback Party as the two parties' platforms became almost identical.

The People's Party gained traction during the Silver Depression as voters flocked to its populist platform. Like the Republican Party at the time, the People's Party pushed for better conditions for workers and business regulations. However, while the Republicans mainly tried to pass legislation for the betterment of industrial working conditions, the People's Party emphasized miners and farmers. Throughout the Panic of 1886 and the following recession, unemployment in the United States rose to over 12 percent. The People's Party benefited from the hard economic times, and by 1900 the People's Party had become a force on the national stage. In 1901, the People's Party changed its name to the name it holds to this day; the Progressive Party.

[1] The OTL Silver King Mine in Arizona
[2] This is what happened to the OTL price of silver. I don't have specific dollar values because the data I found was in OTL 1998 dollars, and I'm not sure how much inflation will happen before modern day.
[3] The Silver Depression has elements of the Long Depression and the Panic of 1893 in its cause and effects. My reasoning is that since the Long Depression was averted earlier, it has greater effects now.
[4] Fusion tickets will be popular among smaller parties, either with other minor parties or with the bigger ones.
 
I had an idea for a north-south running dividing line. What about following the Okanogan River up to Okanogan Lake and Shoswap Lake, then roughly following the High Mountains up to the border at the 52 parallel. The only thing I'm not really sure of is where the border should go once the Okanogan meets the Columbia River. It could just follow the Columbia down to the border, but I'm unsure of how good that looks aesthetically. I've been using these maps for reference.

http://govdocs.evergreen.edu/wastate/wa1895.jpg

http://www.travelphotoi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/british_columbia_1896.jpg


Here's the rough border on the electoral map.

It looks like Vancouver Island is being devoured by the state adjacent to it.
 
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Spengler

Banned
I liked that little twist of having the USA stay on the silver standard. Epic History Sweden would like a word with you.
 
I had an idea for a north-south running dividing line. What about following the Okanogan River up to Okanogan Lake and Shoswap Lake, then roughly following the High Mountains up to the border at the 52 parallel. The only thing I'm not really sure of is where the border should go once the Okanogan meets the Columbia River. It could just follow the Columbia down to the border, but I'm unsure of how good that looks aesthetically. I've been using these maps for reference.

http://govdocs.evergreen.edu/wastate/wa1895.jpg

http://www.travelphotoi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/british_columbia_1896.jpg


Here's the rough border on the electoral map.

Eh, it's okay{barely}, but there's LOTS of room for improvement, though.
 
I had an idea for a north-south running dividing line. What about following the Okanogan River up to Okanogan Lake and Shoswap Lake, then roughly following the High Mountains up to the border at the 52 parallel. The only thing I'm not really sure of is where the border should go once the Okanogan meets the Columbia River. It could just follow the Columbia down to the border, but I'm unsure of how good that looks aesthetically.

I think that looks nice.
 
Third parties! Will the United States also gain a socialist party before the Great War?
There will be a socialist party in the US. I'm not sure how big it will get though.

I liked that little twist of having the USA stay on the silver standard.
Thanks. That was basically decided by the 1884 election.

My main concern is the population levels of the eastern part. Are there enough people there to justify it being a separate administrative entity?
The two biggest cities in the eastern state in OTL would be Spokane, WA and Kelowna, BC. Together those cities have about 600,000 people now. Plus the Kootenay mineral rushes are creating boomtowns in the state.
 
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