Union and Liberty: An American TL
- Thread starter wilcoxchar
- Start date
The population data is a cool and helpful. Interesting to see St. Louis already larger than Chicago, the conflux megalopolis starting to take form I guess. A bit surprised to see New Orleans that far down. It kinda makes sense, everything above it also very important. But with the increased migration to the Gulf Coast and with the increased importance of the Mississippi River I would have guessed it be higher.
Anyway it would be really cool to have another pole for the next election. Last time was really fun, and it certainly adds value to the TL.
Ah, didn't realize that. Every four years it is.
In OTL, New Orleans was actually much worse than this. It had about half the population I have it at, and was making its last appearance in the top 10 in 1880. However, New Orleans will probably keep rising. Baltimore's importance is on the decline as western production shifts to the Mississippi River and railroads for transport. I'm also planning on having the consolidation of New York not happen, so Brooklyn will stay up there. I might expand it to top 20 sometime as well.
Oh, cool didn't realize New Orleans lost its importance so early in OTL. If the population numbers hold (in New Orleans and other Gulf cities), one of the interesting cultural butterflies that should occur is that TTL would likely have the equivalent of the Harlem Renaissance occurring sooner (and probably much stronger). You don't have to wait for enough blacks to migrate into New York to have a significant cultural movement. Add Havana to the mix and you can probably have a parallel renaissance there as well.
Boston's still larger in population that it was in OTL, but with Irish immigration more spread out, it's ended up lower in ranking. For Chicago, without the Chicago Fire, the city doesn't build up as quickly. Also, Saint Louis has retained its importance because of more use of the Mississippi River route for transportation so the Great Lakes-Erie Canal route isn't the dominant water transport link.
There's already a bit of a center of black culture in Matanzas in Cuba which had a large slave population prior to the National War. It would be interesting to see the African-American cultural renaissance start in Cuba and spread to the Gulf Coast with greater Cuban influences.
Also, I have some annoying news. I spilled coffee on my spare laptop so it's now sent off for repair, and still no word on my other one so I'm back to using the library computers again for the time being.
Not sure when I'll have the next update done, but I should still have everything backed up so I might be able to get one up this week.I have some annoying news. I spilled coffee on my spare laptop so it's now sent off for repair, and still no word on my other one so I'm back to using the library computers again for the time being.
I've taken to making whole phalanxes of smileys instead of just one.
Ugh, this week has been kicking my ass so I haven't had any time to get an update done. Hopefully I'll have time to work on it tomorrow, but if not my last project before finals is due Monday so I'll definitely have some time mid-week. Going to shoot for Wednesday for having the next update up, and after that update's finished I'll set up the poll for the 1884 election.
Hopefully I'll have time to work on it tomorrow, but if not my last project before finals is due Monday so I'll definitely have some time mid-week. Going to shoot for Wednesday for having the next update up, and after that update's finished I'll set up the poll for the 1884 election.Ugh, this week has been kicking my ass so I haven't had any time to get an update done.
No problem, I'll be happy to read it whenever you can post it.
Part Seventy-Six: Money and Power
Okay, got the part of this update minus the 1884 election done. Will put the poll up now.
Part Seventy-Six: Money and Power
The Gold Standard:
With the victory of the Democrats in the 1880 election, one of the new Democratic administration's priorities was to bring the United States onto the gold standard as almost all of Europe had done. In 1881, the House of Representatives passed the Cleveland-Gibson Act, which would demonetize silver and phase out silver currency in favor of gold currency and place the United States completely on the gold standard. However, the act faced much opposition from politicians in the western United States and from businesses such as mining and railroad companies with interests in the silver coming from the Rocky Mountains. The opposition was powerful enough in the Senate that the Cleveland-Gibson Act only received 36 votes for and was voted down with 48 votes against.
However, the Democratic Party would not be deterred and sought to restrict the use of silver currency once again two years later in 1883. A recession in 1882 had presented another opportunity to decry the bimetallic standard. Congressman Grover Cleveland, one of the authors of the failed act two years prior, brought another bill to the House of Representatives that was less harsh than the earlier bill but still made restrictions on the use of silver as a currency. The new Coinage Act of 1883 reduced the size of silver coinage and transferred much of the silver coin production to trade dollars. The news silver trade dollars were minted mainly in Ferroplano and Tacoma and were mostly used in trade with California, Mexico, and East Asia. While the Fifth Coinage Act did satisfy some in the gold standard movement, it angered miners in the Rockies and did little to shelter the country from the drastic fall in silver prices as the European Monetary Standard solidified that continent's movement to the gold standard. Immediately after the passage of the act, a slight recession hit the United States that lasted into early 1884 as bankers and monetary speculators reacted to the act.
Election of 1884:
The 1884 election was a watershed election for the United States. The Democratic victory in 1880 had upset the long-running Republican dominance of the presidency and forced the Republicans to realign themselves. With the Democrats taking a solid hold of many former Confederate states and gaining popularity with business interests in the Northeast, the 1884 Republican National Convention had a slight air of desperation. James G. Blaine, a divisive figure in the 1880 convention, was quickly dismissed on the ballot as many in the party blamed him for the loss to Winfield Scott Hancock. After five ballots, Vermont senator George Edmunds won the nomination for the Republican presidential candidate. Edmunds was chosen for his reputation in Congress among industrial workers. John Sherman, former Treasury Secretary under President Burnside, won the nomination for the vice presidential candidacy[1].
In most of the country, the general campaign was centered around the debate over the gold standard. In the summer of 1884, Hancock made several speeches in the Northeast regarding the benefits of the gold standard and how the United States was one of the few countries to not adopt the practice. The Democrats blamed the 1883 recession on the bimetallic system as well as the economic uncertainty created by the attempts to block the legislation in Congress. However, Edmunds and the Republicans retorted that the recession was the result of anticipation of a move toward the gold standard and the potential reduction in the supply of currency. Edmunds also blamed the low tariffs were hurting the production of American goods. Edmunds especially mentioned the declining price of agricultural products in a speech in Decatur, Demoine to help gain the farmers' votes. The Republicans' targetting of Hancock's administration worked and the Republicans won decisively. Much of the South remained Democratic, however, and Hancock only lost Maryland and his home state of Pennsylvania by less than a percentage point. Had Hancock won those two states, the electoral vote would have been a tie and the election would have gone to the House.
Here is a link to the poll that decided the election result.
[1] George Edmunds and John Sherman were in OTL the main authors of the Sherman Antitrust Act.
Part Seventy-Six: Money and Power
The Gold Standard:
With the victory of the Democrats in the 1880 election, one of the new Democratic administration's priorities was to bring the United States onto the gold standard as almost all of Europe had done. In 1881, the House of Representatives passed the Cleveland-Gibson Act, which would demonetize silver and phase out silver currency in favor of gold currency and place the United States completely on the gold standard. However, the act faced much opposition from politicians in the western United States and from businesses such as mining and railroad companies with interests in the silver coming from the Rocky Mountains. The opposition was powerful enough in the Senate that the Cleveland-Gibson Act only received 36 votes for and was voted down with 48 votes against.
However, the Democratic Party would not be deterred and sought to restrict the use of silver currency once again two years later in 1883. A recession in 1882 had presented another opportunity to decry the bimetallic standard. Congressman Grover Cleveland, one of the authors of the failed act two years prior, brought another bill to the House of Representatives that was less harsh than the earlier bill but still made restrictions on the use of silver as a currency. The new Coinage Act of 1883 reduced the size of silver coinage and transferred much of the silver coin production to trade dollars. The news silver trade dollars were minted mainly in Ferroplano and Tacoma and were mostly used in trade with California, Mexico, and East Asia. While the Fifth Coinage Act did satisfy some in the gold standard movement, it angered miners in the Rockies and did little to shelter the country from the drastic fall in silver prices as the European Monetary Standard solidified that continent's movement to the gold standard. Immediately after the passage of the act, a slight recession hit the United States that lasted into early 1884 as bankers and monetary speculators reacted to the act.
Election of 1884:
The 1884 election was a watershed election for the United States. The Democratic victory in 1880 had upset the long-running Republican dominance of the presidency and forced the Republicans to realign themselves. With the Democrats taking a solid hold of many former Confederate states and gaining popularity with business interests in the Northeast, the 1884 Republican National Convention had a slight air of desperation. James G. Blaine, a divisive figure in the 1880 convention, was quickly dismissed on the ballot as many in the party blamed him for the loss to Winfield Scott Hancock. After five ballots, Vermont senator George Edmunds won the nomination for the Republican presidential candidate. Edmunds was chosen for his reputation in Congress among industrial workers. John Sherman, former Treasury Secretary under President Burnside, won the nomination for the vice presidential candidacy[1].
In most of the country, the general campaign was centered around the debate over the gold standard. In the summer of 1884, Hancock made several speeches in the Northeast regarding the benefits of the gold standard and how the United States was one of the few countries to not adopt the practice. The Democrats blamed the 1883 recession on the bimetallic system as well as the economic uncertainty created by the attempts to block the legislation in Congress. However, Edmunds and the Republicans retorted that the recession was the result of anticipation of a move toward the gold standard and the potential reduction in the supply of currency. Edmunds also blamed the low tariffs were hurting the production of American goods. Edmunds especially mentioned the declining price of agricultural products in a speech in Decatur, Demoine to help gain the farmers' votes. The Republicans' targetting of Hancock's administration worked and the Republicans won decisively. Much of the South remained Democratic, however, and Hancock only lost Maryland and his home state of Pennsylvania by less than a percentage point. Had Hancock won those two states, the electoral vote would have been a tie and the election would have gone to the House.
Here is a link to the poll that decided the election result.
[1] George Edmunds and John Sherman were in OTL the main authors of the Sherman Antitrust Act.
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Added the part about the general campaign to the above post, now that the poll is over. Here's the electoral map. The changes in electoral votes for the 1880 census might be a bit large, as for this census I've started plotting the populations of the states and using a program to apportion the electoral votes correctly. Part of the explanation in-universe would be a redistribution of the votes based on the increase from a total of 329 electoral votes to 336 electoral votes passed during the Hancock administration.
Wow New York took a major hit in the Electoral College. OTL the only time it had fewer than 29 EVs was prior to 1812! Your map really shows how differently demographic movement has been ITTL, with immigrants spreading out much much more evenly across the country.
Also, I hope New Mexico becomes a state soon. Santa Fe and El Paso should have sizeable populations now and with the better position of Hispanics ITTL it shouldn't have its statehood delayed for as long as AZ and NM had OTL.
Actually, from the looks of it, anywhere south of the 32nd parallel will either have to be given to Tejas or split off into a separate state.
I hope that if America expands to include Chihuahua, they include this area in that state. I like the shape of that.
I actually like the really odd shape of New Mexico iTTL, and I bet the residents of New Mexico iTTL would be proud of it. Tejas might not like it but it be a good base for a state rivalry there.
If I am not mistaken Chihuahua has been annexed by the Rio Bravo Rep, (and it includes an outlet to the Pacific south of Sonora). I think Rio Bravo, is large and strong enough (certainly somewhat well populated) now to resist annexation. It would have to be voluntary for it to happen.
Me too, BTW, I think it may have been mentioned that California wasn't going to last much longer by then. Frankly, barring some foreign support or some miracle, neither will the Rio Bravo Republic.
I disagree on both counts.
I know that being so close to the United States can be dangerous to one's health, but if countries like El Salvador and Honduras can survive OTL, than certainly California can survive with a population exceeding a quarter million by 1884, and Rio Grande Republic should have a decent population by now as well. I can see both surviving without divine intervention.
Also, I believe that Wilcoxchar, due to popular opinion, decided to retcon the complete annexation of California in favor of it losing the Mormon areas and the upper bay area (but of course plans can always change).
Also, I believe that Wilcoxchar, due to popular opinion, decided to retcon the complete annexation of California in favor of it losing the Mormon areas and the upper bay area (but of course plans can always change).