Union and Liberty: An American TL
- Thread starter wilcoxchar
- Start date
I can't remember exactly which year I used, but it was one of the versions of this map.
A bit of a delay for this week's update. Moving back to DC for the start of school and into my first apartment!
Here's a little newpaper clipping to tide you over.
Here's a little newpaper clipping to tide you over.
Party Fifty-Seven: Out of Order Comes Chaos
Next update is done!
Party Fifty-Seven: Out of Order Comes Chaos
Sambre Stalemate and Barcelona Blues:
After the success of the Battle of the Sambre, France gained comparatively little ground on the eastern side of the Belgian front during the following year. While France did continue to extend its hold across the Sambre to Charleroi, the Coalition was able to move the majority of the front back to the river. In July and August, a large British offensive in the center line of the front recaptured Mons, but failed to reach the border between Belgium and France. Further west along the front, France worked most of the year to take Lille from the Coalition. France finally did manage to secure Lille in October after the British and Belgian garrison was sufficiently weakened by the redirection of Coalition forces toward the Mons offensive.
Meanwhile, the French continued to gain more and more ground in Spain as the Spanish forces were drawn further back into Spain. The Basque front was stagnant for much of the year with France making minimal gains only to secure Estella from a wide Spanish attack. However, the Spanish armies in Catalonia had to endure more retreats as France reached Sabadell in June and Badalona in August. A large network of trenches and artillery pieces were set up near Badalona on the coast up through the hills north of Barcelona to Montcada, where the Ripoll and Besos rivers met and cut a flat plain through the hills to the coast. In early September, a Spanish and British naval contingent was able to get the French navy away from Barcelona, but the French armies still bore down on the defenses. A difficult, slow campaign ensued, much like the previous battle near Girona, and lasted for months as France began to surround the city.
The Final Days:
Up until now, the Habsburg rule over the Austrian Empire had been on the verge of complete collapse in the face of the German and Italian invasions and the rebellions in the south and east. In 1869, the final straw would break in Austria and the Habsburg dynasty would come to a violent, crashing end. In March, the Italian armies under Cialdini captured Venice, Treviso, and Udine, and began to force the Austrian armies into the Alps. Bavarian armies took several Alpine towns and turned their eyes east, marching through Linz in June. Steffen Osisek started to march his armies through the Moravian Plateau toward Vienna in April. The three countries were converging upon Vienna, even when the Habsburgs had already fled the city.
However, in July, a mass uprising in Hungary against Habsburg rule brought an abrupt and somewhat sensible end to the war. Emperor Franz Karl, with gunshots outside of the compound the Royal Family was staying at in Budapest[1], wrote a letter of surrender to Berlin. Within this letter Franz Karl requested two things. First, that the negotiation of peace terms be begun as quickly as possible so that the armies could work together to quell the rebellions that were growing every day. And second, the Habsburg royal family requested asylum in Bavaria on the basis that Franz Karl's wife, Archduchess Sophie, was the aunt of King Maximilian II of Bavaria. These terms were granted by the victorious powers, but only guaranteed for the duration of negotiations, and the Habsburg Royal Family was sped to Berlin on a train.
Emperor Franz Karl and his family arrived in Berlin on July 22nd, 1869 and met with the Prussian, Bavarian, and Italian leaders in the nearby town of Cottbus. The next three months were spent in negotiations over concessions in a territory that one side had increasingly little rule over. In November, the final minutiae of the proceedings had been finished and the Treaty of Cottbus was signed by Chancellor Otto von Bismarck and King William I of Prussia, King Maximilian II of Bavaria, and President Giuseppe Garibaldi of Italy on the side of the victors, and Emperor Franz Karl and Archduke Maximilian[2] of Austria on the side of the defeated. The terms of the Treaty of Cottbus included the abolition of the German Confederation with Prussia formally acknowledged as the leader of the German states, the cession of Bohemia to Prussia, the cession of much of Tirol and the city of Salzburg to Bavaria, and the cession of Lombardy and Venetia to Italy. However, formal peace did not bring an end to the uprisings in Austria and the former Habsburg realms were now fast becoming a land of lawlessness and anarchy.
[1] The story of writing the message amid gunshots outside is apocryphal, mind you.
[2] Eldest son of Franz Karl; also known in OTL as Emperor Maximilian I of Mexico
Party Fifty-Seven: Out of Order Comes Chaos
Sambre Stalemate and Barcelona Blues:
After the success of the Battle of the Sambre, France gained comparatively little ground on the eastern side of the Belgian front during the following year. While France did continue to extend its hold across the Sambre to Charleroi, the Coalition was able to move the majority of the front back to the river. In July and August, a large British offensive in the center line of the front recaptured Mons, but failed to reach the border between Belgium and France. Further west along the front, France worked most of the year to take Lille from the Coalition. France finally did manage to secure Lille in October after the British and Belgian garrison was sufficiently weakened by the redirection of Coalition forces toward the Mons offensive.
Meanwhile, the French continued to gain more and more ground in Spain as the Spanish forces were drawn further back into Spain. The Basque front was stagnant for much of the year with France making minimal gains only to secure Estella from a wide Spanish attack. However, the Spanish armies in Catalonia had to endure more retreats as France reached Sabadell in June and Badalona in August. A large network of trenches and artillery pieces were set up near Badalona on the coast up through the hills north of Barcelona to Montcada, where the Ripoll and Besos rivers met and cut a flat plain through the hills to the coast. In early September, a Spanish and British naval contingent was able to get the French navy away from Barcelona, but the French armies still bore down on the defenses. A difficult, slow campaign ensued, much like the previous battle near Girona, and lasted for months as France began to surround the city.
The Final Days:
Up until now, the Habsburg rule over the Austrian Empire had been on the verge of complete collapse in the face of the German and Italian invasions and the rebellions in the south and east. In 1869, the final straw would break in Austria and the Habsburg dynasty would come to a violent, crashing end. In March, the Italian armies under Cialdini captured Venice, Treviso, and Udine, and began to force the Austrian armies into the Alps. Bavarian armies took several Alpine towns and turned their eyes east, marching through Linz in June. Steffen Osisek started to march his armies through the Moravian Plateau toward Vienna in April. The three countries were converging upon Vienna, even when the Habsburgs had already fled the city.
However, in July, a mass uprising in Hungary against Habsburg rule brought an abrupt and somewhat sensible end to the war. Emperor Franz Karl, with gunshots outside of the compound the Royal Family was staying at in Budapest[1], wrote a letter of surrender to Berlin. Within this letter Franz Karl requested two things. First, that the negotiation of peace terms be begun as quickly as possible so that the armies could work together to quell the rebellions that were growing every day. And second, the Habsburg royal family requested asylum in Bavaria on the basis that Franz Karl's wife, Archduchess Sophie, was the aunt of King Maximilian II of Bavaria. These terms were granted by the victorious powers, but only guaranteed for the duration of negotiations, and the Habsburg Royal Family was sped to Berlin on a train.
Emperor Franz Karl and his family arrived in Berlin on July 22nd, 1869 and met with the Prussian, Bavarian, and Italian leaders in the nearby town of Cottbus. The next three months were spent in negotiations over concessions in a territory that one side had increasingly little rule over. In November, the final minutiae of the proceedings had been finished and the Treaty of Cottbus was signed by Chancellor Otto von Bismarck and King William I of Prussia, King Maximilian II of Bavaria, and President Giuseppe Garibaldi of Italy on the side of the victors, and Emperor Franz Karl and Archduke Maximilian[2] of Austria on the side of the defeated. The terms of the Treaty of Cottbus included the abolition of the German Confederation with Prussia formally acknowledged as the leader of the German states, the cession of Bohemia to Prussia, the cession of much of Tirol and the city of Salzburg to Bavaria, and the cession of Lombardy and Venetia to Italy. However, formal peace did not bring an end to the uprisings in Austria and the former Habsburg realms were now fast becoming a land of lawlessness and anarchy.
[1] The story of writing the message amid gunshots outside is apocryphal, mind you.
[2] Eldest son of Franz Karl; also known in OTL as Emperor Maximilian I of Mexico
Excellent Post! 2 Questions:
1) How many people do you estimate have died so far after four years of war in the Second Napoleonic War? With all the Trench Warfare between two Industrial Powers, the cost could be rather high.
2) (possibly to other posters) How stable could a Hapsburg Empire possibly be if the ethnic German part is reduced to basically Vienna and its surroundings?
1) How many people do you estimate have died so far after four years of war in the Second Napoleonic War? With all the Trench Warfare between two Industrial Powers, the cost could be rather high.
2) (possibly to other posters) How stable could a Hapsburg Empire possibly be if the ethnic German part is reduced to basically Vienna and its surroundings?
Thanks very much. Glad you're liking it.
The casualties definitely won't be as high as WWI, but will be somewhat higher than Crimean War levels. I'd say around 275,000 Frenchmen, 80,000 Spaniards, 55,000 Belgians, and 250,000 British for the overall war. A total of around 660,000 casualties.
The Grand Unification War is a bit trickier for casualty amounts with the rebellions going on. In the direct fighting, My first rough estimate would be 50,000 Italians, 90,000 Prussians, 10,000 Danes and Hanoverians, 3,000 of the smaller German states, 20,000 Bavarians, and 180,000 Austrians.
EDIT: Also, I'm open to suggestions from anyone on what should appear out of the former Austrian lands. I've got a few vague ideas, but suggestions would be most welcome and definitely will be considered.
One thing I'm wondering about, and which may in fact wind up having some influence on what eventually happens to what's left of Austria, is who is nominally in charge. You've mentioned the area has fallen into lawlessness and anarchy, and have it marked as no government on the map. With the Hapsburgs gone, what kind of rule is left? Is there anyone with the official authority of leader, even though I figure it is likely to be only on paper? For that matter, what or who is claiming to be in power there (regardless of how much power is actually held)?
Maybe, although I'm not sure I want to give Italy or the German states much more than they already have.
Nominally the Habsburgs are still in charge since the Treaty of Cottbus said nothing about dethroning them, although they have no control over any of the country anymore and the Great Powers are being ambivalent on whether they'll actually do something to try and put the Habsburgs back on the throne.
More realistically at this point, the provincial governors are in power, but still don't really have much control outside their government buildings, sort of like the Transitional Federal Government at the worst times in Somalia. Who is really in control is various political groups, ranging from nationalists to socialist Communes in some cities to republican groups to local warlord-type figures. Yeah, I'm basically putting the former Austrian Empire into a Somalia-like situation for a few years.
Great update wilcox!
For the fate of the Hapsburg ladns I think the most logical would be to have a greater Italy and Germany fufilled. Something tells me the German and Italian populations will want that at some point. Even if Vienna is really relcutant on joining Germany at first. (Maybe they get a special status).
However it seems that Bavaria will also have more say in how Germany evolves. So a North and South Germany is an uption as well with most of Austria ending up in the Southern Catholic Bavarian-centered Germany. This could be a very interesting otion that is rarely seen.
The Hapsburgs might stay for a while in Hungary but sooner or later they'll be done with and we might see an elarged Hungary for a while. Hopefully things end up better for Hungary tahn in OTL. But a country with so many minorities is bound to run into some trouble with its neighbors sooner or later.
This can turn out in many different ways. WHat happens with Craotia and Slovenia goes along with this.
Also what dio the Czechs thing about having their lands split between Austria and Prussia. Bohemia has a long history as part of Austria and IOTL they where the ones who really want "everyone to just be Austrian". I recon they really dont like it.
For the fate of the Hapsburg ladns I think the most logical would be to have a greater Italy and Germany fufilled. Something tells me the German and Italian populations will want that at some point. Even if Vienna is really relcutant on joining Germany at first. (Maybe they get a special status).
However it seems that Bavaria will also have more say in how Germany evolves. So a North and South Germany is an uption as well with most of Austria ending up in the Southern Catholic Bavarian-centered Germany. This could be a very interesting otion that is rarely seen.
The Hapsburgs might stay for a while in Hungary but sooner or later they'll be done with and we might see an elarged Hungary for a while. Hopefully things end up better for Hungary tahn in OTL. But a country with so many minorities is bound to run into some trouble with its neighbors sooner or later.
This can turn out in many different ways. WHat happens with Craotia and Slovenia goes along with this.
Also what dio the Czechs thing about having their lands split between Austria and Prussia. Bohemia has a long history as part of Austria and IOTL they where the ones who really want "everyone to just be Austrian". I recon they really dont like it.
Well, this could be a good time for an Austrian nationalist movement to pop up or for the Bavarian revanchist movement to morph into a greater South German nationalism of some sort. But yeah, I agree that the Germans are probably going to want to take Vienna at some point.
There is the possibility of a North and South Germany being formed, especially with a more independent-minded Bavaria. Although Prussia and Bismarck might not like the idea of the South going their own way too much, since in my mind Bismarck is trying to create a single consolidated German state.
As for the Habsburgs, they have already been kicked out of Hungary and are now technically in exile in Berlin. Where they might go after this and whether they'll gain power again somewhere, I'm not sure.
With the Czechs, Bohemia and Moravia were already split into separate provinces under the Austrians, and IIRC there was a small Moravian nationalist movement in the 19th century. Wiki says that over a million people in Moravia listed themselves as Moravian in the 1991 census when natinoalist ideas were rising in post-Soviet Czechoslovakia, so it could be a similar case here with a spike in national sentiment after overthrowing an oppressor. I haven't really decided what will happen to Bohemia or Moravia in the long term yet though, right now I'm just brainstorming.
Suggestion-Let Prussia and Bavaria Unite for the sake of greater Germany.
+1 I concur
I concur with their concurrence with an additional caveat, I suggest Super Germany including Prussia, Bavaria, Austria (austria proper), Bohemia and Moravia. Hungary gets the south slav lands and the problems they come with.
Dunno if the English will let that happen, but that's my idea.
Thanks everyone!
I'll probably end up with a Greater Germany and Italy getting pieces of land from Former Austria, but there's also plenty of opportunities for tiny awesome short-lived states to exist in the meantime. I've got at least one planned for Vienna, but there's also lots of other options for competing movements to carve out little areas before they're swallowed up as things return to order and political entities get consolidated again.
I'll probably end up with a Greater Germany and Italy getting pieces of land from Former Austria, but there's also plenty of opportunities for tiny awesome short-lived states to exist in the meantime. I've got at least one planned for Vienna, but there's also lots of other options for competing movements to carve out little areas before they're swallowed up as things return to order and political entities get consolidated again.
I'd love to see a world map, Wilcox
This timeline has been one of my favourites for a long time.
This timeline has been one of my favourites for a long time.