Union and Liberty: An American TL
- Thread starter wilcoxchar
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That would be great! Thanks.Sadly, Wikipedia has been less than satisfactory on the topic.
The history of Latinos in the United States is generally considered a part of 20th and 21st century; and much beyond immigration controversies, is often ignored. During the 1960s and 70s of the Chicano Movement, the youth taking part, had been here for generations-hence the acceptance of the term
"Chicano" to signify over a century of a mixed American-Mexican culture that took root in the Southwest.
I know "mulatto" was a category in the US census at some point. In Latin America this never really became a derogatory term; used the same as mestizo for Indian/White people (though this gets complicated, as many Indian groups consider a member taking on more mainstream dress and leaving the community, as becoming a mestizo). With Cuban society entering US, the term might never become a pejorative, and as I said, basically leading to mulattos being considered their own ethnic group-the Metis are another example how this will probably go. They won't be part of the White majority, but are considered rather distinct from the larger African American population.
While South Africa is a VERY different place, remember that 'Coloured' is one of the 4 racial groups - and is second to the top because they're part white. Some crazy system that put at least Quadroons ahead of Chinese in the US is, IMO, theoretically possible with the right PoD (although it would be a bit hard).
Agh yes, the "coloureds" would be another good example, I have a friend from SA that is coloured (and we've had alot of conversations on the subject)
But as for the possiblity of a seperate "mixed-race" category arising in this TL, it could come about as the entirety of Cuban society becomes a part of the US; the Spanish colonizer idea of race might cross over to the US at large, to certain degrees.
However, with the US's general "one-drop" rule on race, the more likely outcome would still be the White Cubans blend more with the general Anglo culture (resembling something akin to French Louisianans), while Blacks and Mulattoes/Mestizos get lumped together in general African American pop.(and probably in mainland communities they see themselves largely one in the same as Cuban Blacks,forming their own culture/idenity-just as Puerto Ricans and Cuban-Americans of OTL do); while on the island the Mulattoes/Meztizos might keep something of a seperate identity.
Sorry all, but my timeline may have to be on hold for a bit. School and Nanowrimo are taking up much of my time, and I'm going to be gone much of the winter break, so I won't be able to write more for a while. However, schoolwork could actually help me with the timeline as well. On Saturday my research methods class is taking a trip to Gettysburg to look at military modeling through Civil War battles.
In my work, I've also noticed some slight similarities between the immediate causes of TTL's War Between the States and the 1993 Russian Constitutional Crisis. Except, of course, ITTL Atchison had little to no military support to back his decision with.
In my work, I've also noticed some slight similarities between the immediate causes of TTL's War Between the States and the 1993 Russian Constitutional Crisis. Except, of course, ITTL Atchison had little to no military support to back his decision with.
Part Thirty-Four: Johnson's Revenge
Well, huh. There's been a slight break in my workload and I've managed to get another update finished!
Part Thirty-Four: Johnson's Revenge
Johnson's Revenge: Word of the Greeneville Massacre reached President Johnson on April 13th, 1863. Johnson was appalled that the Confederacy would allow such a devious action to take place, but quickly recovered from the shock. On the 22nd of April, Johnson decided that he would personally lead an offensive into Virginia to reciprocate the events at Greeneville. The constitutional authority on this matter had been ambiguous. However, as Washington had been in the battlefield while President and Madison had briefly commanded a naval battery during the Anglo-American War of 1812 [1], Johnson asserted his authority as commander-in-chief. For the next two months, Johnson studied military texts and maps to decide the best course of action against the Confederate forces in Virginia.
The threat of Longstreet's forces against Cincinnati launched President Johnson's plan into action. Johnson began the offensive on June 9th when he took over the Army of the Potomac from McClellan. Johnson led the Army of the Potomac ten miles west before they crossed the Potomac River. Leading the army south, Johnson led his first skirmish at the town of Ayrhill [2] north of Fairfax. Under Johnson's command with assistance from Brigadier General Ambrose Burnside, the Army of the Potomac quickly routed the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia with the aid of the field artillery following Napoleonic style tactics. The Army of the Potomac captured Fairfax on the 11th of June, and curved southwest along the Chesapeake and Ohio railway. Johnson also did his best to ensure a constant telegraph link with Washington during the campaign so he could be updated as soon as possible on any movements or information regarding the Confederate positions.
Johnson advanced the Army of the Potomac south to Fredericksburg and took the city easily. The Army of Northern Virginia, now led by George S. Pickett, continued its retreat toward Richmond, and Johnson continued in pursuit after Pickett. After another rout of the Army of Northern Virginia at Spotsylvania on the 20th of June, Johnson stalled his offensive to wait for word from McClellan about the readiness of his forces on the Virginia Peninsula. Johnson planned an offensive by both his and McClellan's forces toward Richmond, mimicking the Confederate attack on Knoxville. On July 4th, 1863, McClellan began a push up the Virginia Peninsula. Johnson knew that the peninsula was well defended and so allowed for a delay between McClellan's advance and the beginning of the Army of the Potomac's move south.
Once again, however, McClellan's advance was stopped at Williamsburg and McClellan did not move further for the next two weeks. Despite this, Johnson decided to go ahead with his advance on the 16th of July, and found Pickett and the Army of Northern Virginia at a dip in the South Anna River two miles north of Ashland. By positioning the Confederate force with their backs to the river, Pickett ensured that the Army of Northern Virginia would not simply retreat yet again. Three days into the battle, it appeared that the Army of Northern Virginia was going to retreat and that Richmond would soon be captured. But by a pure coincidence, Forrest's cavalry corps arrived from the west in the early afternoon of July 19th. Forrest pinned a quarter of the Union forces between his cavalry and the main Confederate army, and the Army of the Potomac were routed later that evening. Johnson gave control over the Army of the Potomac to Burnside as the army left for Fredericksburg, and President Johnson returned to Washington. While Richmond was not captured during the offensive, much ground was gained in Virginia and the campaign was an overall success for the Union.
[1] The only source I could find for Madison was Wiki, but it seems good enough. And I figured the name of the War of 1812 would be changed since there have been multiple wars between the US and Britain.
[2] OTL Vienna, VA. As an example of how influential minor events are, in OTL Ayrhill only changed its name to Vienna to get a doctor to move there.
Part Thirty-Four: Johnson's Revenge
Johnson's Revenge: Word of the Greeneville Massacre reached President Johnson on April 13th, 1863. Johnson was appalled that the Confederacy would allow such a devious action to take place, but quickly recovered from the shock. On the 22nd of April, Johnson decided that he would personally lead an offensive into Virginia to reciprocate the events at Greeneville. The constitutional authority on this matter had been ambiguous. However, as Washington had been in the battlefield while President and Madison had briefly commanded a naval battery during the Anglo-American War of 1812 [1], Johnson asserted his authority as commander-in-chief. For the next two months, Johnson studied military texts and maps to decide the best course of action against the Confederate forces in Virginia.
The threat of Longstreet's forces against Cincinnati launched President Johnson's plan into action. Johnson began the offensive on June 9th when he took over the Army of the Potomac from McClellan. Johnson led the Army of the Potomac ten miles west before they crossed the Potomac River. Leading the army south, Johnson led his first skirmish at the town of Ayrhill [2] north of Fairfax. Under Johnson's command with assistance from Brigadier General Ambrose Burnside, the Army of the Potomac quickly routed the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia with the aid of the field artillery following Napoleonic style tactics. The Army of the Potomac captured Fairfax on the 11th of June, and curved southwest along the Chesapeake and Ohio railway. Johnson also did his best to ensure a constant telegraph link with Washington during the campaign so he could be updated as soon as possible on any movements or information regarding the Confederate positions.
Johnson advanced the Army of the Potomac south to Fredericksburg and took the city easily. The Army of Northern Virginia, now led by George S. Pickett, continued its retreat toward Richmond, and Johnson continued in pursuit after Pickett. After another rout of the Army of Northern Virginia at Spotsylvania on the 20th of June, Johnson stalled his offensive to wait for word from McClellan about the readiness of his forces on the Virginia Peninsula. Johnson planned an offensive by both his and McClellan's forces toward Richmond, mimicking the Confederate attack on Knoxville. On July 4th, 1863, McClellan began a push up the Virginia Peninsula. Johnson knew that the peninsula was well defended and so allowed for a delay between McClellan's advance and the beginning of the Army of the Potomac's move south.
Once again, however, McClellan's advance was stopped at Williamsburg and McClellan did not move further for the next two weeks. Despite this, Johnson decided to go ahead with his advance on the 16th of July, and found Pickett and the Army of Northern Virginia at a dip in the South Anna River two miles north of Ashland. By positioning the Confederate force with their backs to the river, Pickett ensured that the Army of Northern Virginia would not simply retreat yet again. Three days into the battle, it appeared that the Army of Northern Virginia was going to retreat and that Richmond would soon be captured. But by a pure coincidence, Forrest's cavalry corps arrived from the west in the early afternoon of July 19th. Forrest pinned a quarter of the Union forces between his cavalry and the main Confederate army, and the Army of the Potomac were routed later that evening. Johnson gave control over the Army of the Potomac to Burnside as the army left for Fredericksburg, and President Johnson returned to Washington. While Richmond was not captured during the offensive, much ground was gained in Virginia and the campaign was an overall success for the Union.
[1] The only source I could find for Madison was Wiki, but it seems good enough. And I figured the name of the War of 1812 would be changed since there have been multiple wars between the US and Britain.
[2] OTL Vienna, VA. As an example of how influential minor events are, in OTL Ayrhill only changed its name to Vienna to get a doctor to move there.
What kind of Military experience did Johnson have? I thought he was a tailor and then a lawyer before getting into politics? I mean butterflies are cool and I love this TL , just curious if this is you or OTL?
, just curious if this is you or OTL?I originally thought it would be at least partially based in history until I found out that in OTL Johnson only became a brigadier general so he could be military governor of Tennessee. So yeah, his military experience is due to butterlifes. And I did have him spend a couple months studying tactics and strategy.What kind of Military experience did Johnson have? I thought he was a tailor and then a lawyer before getting into politics? I mean butterflies are cool and I love this TL
I thought I'd boost Johnson's reputation a bit from OTL.Johnson has just entered the pantheon of badass Presidents.
Johnson has just entered the pantheon of badass Presidents.
Psh, I liked how he leaves Burnside in charge when things start to go bad. So he gets the blame for the upcoming counterattack.
Kinda like OTL the newpapers would praise Grant when things were going good in 1864 and blame Meade when Lee beat them.
Psh, I liked how he leaves Burnside in charge when things start to go bad. So he gets the blame for the upcoming counterattack.
Kinda like OTL the newpapers would praise Grant when things were going good in 1864 and blame Meade when Lee beat them.
Yeah, see now if the Union wins he will get a tremendous popularity boost; as said above, he will be the bad ass president. However if the South wins there will be a lot of talk of Johnson "playing general" and Johnson the "military dictator", etc. So it might go both ways.
Well, if things start going bad he might be needed back in Washington for political stuff.Psh, I liked how he leaves Burnside in charge when things start to go bad. So he gets the blame for the upcoming counterattack.
Kinda like OTL the newpapers would praise Grant when things were going good in 1864 and blame Meade when Lee beat them.
But it could be used against him in the 1864 election.Yep. Depending on how the war goes, it could make Johnson be viewed as either one of the greatest presidents or one of the worst.
That's awesome, you had a president crush the Army of Northern Virginia
I once played with the idea of Davis taking command of the Army of Northern Virginia during the Seven Day's battles(Lee being elsewhere at the time) for a TL, though seems I was beaten to it.
My problem is for all my speculation on various subjects I never do hunker down and start writing a timeline.
I once played with the idea of Davis taking command of the Army of Northern Virginia during the Seven Day's battles(Lee being elsewhere at the time) for a TL, though seems I was beaten to it.
My problem is for all my speculation on various subjects I never do hunker down and start writing a timeline.
Well you can still do it, but I feel you, I go through spurts where I'll get several updates written, then I just slow down for up to a month a more. I think I'm in a down turn right now (school isn't helping...but I'm almost done
)Darn, I was getting pretty far on the next update but the comp froze. I will have it rewritten and up before Thanksgiving though. And with that update will come a map!
I will have it rewritten and up before Thanksgiving though. And with that update will come a map!Well, I didn't actually get the update done, but I do have a map! This is a very rough sketch of what South America looks like in 1860, especially considering the sparsely settled areas and the various disputes between countries. As you can see, the main difference here is that South Peru joined Bolivia instead of Peru when the Peru-Bolivian Confederacy dissolved. No real justification for this yet, but I'm sure I can find something.
Not hard to justify really. Had Lima been a little bit more loyalist to Spain this would have probably happened. Lima was the loyalist stronghold in South America. A scenario like this would make Peru would actually be a small but somewhat rich country as all the white upper class is located there. While Bolivia would be larger more populous a stronger force against chile but not necessarily better off at all. (Also in this case Bolivia might actually be called Peru and Peru referred to simply as Lima).
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Part Thirty-Five: Fighting in the West
This isn't dead! I've finally got this update finished.
Part Thirty-Five: Fighting in the West
Western Theatre:
The other main Union movements in 1863 occurred in the Western theatre under the movements of the Provisional Texas Army. On July 7th, Juan Seguin and the First Texas Corps began heading northeast from Texarkana. They marched for five days until they met the Confederate Arkansaw Corps on the plains southwest of the town of Hope, Arkansaw. The skirmish went on for much of the afternoon. However, as the First Texas Corps was composed of mostly cavalry and larger than the Arkansaw Corps, it was soon clear to the Confederates that Hope was lost. The Arkansaw Corps retreated to the east and Seguín took the town. Seguín and his men continued northeast on the 15th of July. They kept northeast for another fifty miles until they reached the town of Arkadelphia. While the First Texas Corps took the town easily, they were harassed by citizens of the Confederacy in the hills north and west of the town. It took another three days for the rebels to be rooted out, and the First Texas Corps did not leave Arkadelphia until the end of July. At this point, Seguín pushed the men to reach Little Rock as soon as possible and they reached the edge of the capital on August 8th.
The First Texas Corps entered the city, but two days later Seguín was caught by the Confederate Army of Mississippi coming up from the south. The Army of the Mississippi camped themselves in the hills southeast of Little Rock and cornered the First Texas Corps between those mountains and the Arkansaw River. While they were pinned, Seguín and his men fought bravely in the Battle of Little Rock and after brutal fighting for five days, they managed to push the Army of the Mississippi out of the hills. Another three days saw the Confederate force retreating back across the Arkansaw. After this battle, the First Texas Corps stayed in Little Rock for the remainder of the year and was unable to fully cut the state of Calhoun off from the rest of the Confederate States.
The other main movement by the Provisional Army of Texas during the remainder of 1863 was an attempt to reach New Orleans with naval support and set up a siege and blockade of the city. This attack did not get very far on land, however, due to the marshy terrain in the area. The naval launch was able to get further along before an encounter with Confederate ships in Athafalaya Bay resulted in the ships turning around and going back to Galveston. The Texan Army was able to capture Shreveport in the final months of 1863 though. Additionally, there was more skirmishing around Kansas City between militia forces from both the Union and Confederate sides which resulted in the loss of some ground for the Confederacy.
Part Thirty-Five: Fighting in the West
Western Theatre:
The other main Union movements in 1863 occurred in the Western theatre under the movements of the Provisional Texas Army. On July 7th, Juan Seguin and the First Texas Corps began heading northeast from Texarkana. They marched for five days until they met the Confederate Arkansaw Corps on the plains southwest of the town of Hope, Arkansaw. The skirmish went on for much of the afternoon. However, as the First Texas Corps was composed of mostly cavalry and larger than the Arkansaw Corps, it was soon clear to the Confederates that Hope was lost. The Arkansaw Corps retreated to the east and Seguín took the town. Seguín and his men continued northeast on the 15th of July. They kept northeast for another fifty miles until they reached the town of Arkadelphia. While the First Texas Corps took the town easily, they were harassed by citizens of the Confederacy in the hills north and west of the town. It took another three days for the rebels to be rooted out, and the First Texas Corps did not leave Arkadelphia until the end of July. At this point, Seguín pushed the men to reach Little Rock as soon as possible and they reached the edge of the capital on August 8th.
The First Texas Corps entered the city, but two days later Seguín was caught by the Confederate Army of Mississippi coming up from the south. The Army of the Mississippi camped themselves in the hills southeast of Little Rock and cornered the First Texas Corps between those mountains and the Arkansaw River. While they were pinned, Seguín and his men fought bravely in the Battle of Little Rock and after brutal fighting for five days, they managed to push the Army of the Mississippi out of the hills. Another three days saw the Confederate force retreating back across the Arkansaw. After this battle, the First Texas Corps stayed in Little Rock for the remainder of the year and was unable to fully cut the state of Calhoun off from the rest of the Confederate States.
The other main movement by the Provisional Army of Texas during the remainder of 1863 was an attempt to reach New Orleans with naval support and set up a siege and blockade of the city. This attack did not get very far on land, however, due to the marshy terrain in the area. The naval launch was able to get further along before an encounter with Confederate ships in Athafalaya Bay resulted in the ships turning around and going back to Galveston. The Texan Army was able to capture Shreveport in the final months of 1863 though. Additionally, there was more skirmishing around Kansas City between militia forces from both the Union and Confederate sides which resulted in the loss of some ground for the Confederacy.