Union and Liberty: An American TL

good to see another update Wilcoxchar. I like how your going into the internal conflicts with the states. Was Grant or Shermen around in your TL?
Grant will be around, not sure about Sherman.

good update is it possible that this greater autonomy will be giving to other states making them more like autonomous republics
Possibly, although the greater autonomy is mostly because of the wartime situation.

President Hancock? I'm assuming that would be Winfield Scott Hancock, correct? Will he play a larger role ITTL's Civil War than OTL's, or just have better luck at the polls in 1880? :p

Nice updates, by the way. I can't wait to see how the rest of the war is going to flesh out.
I haven't decided on precisely how Hancock will end up in the presidency, so he might appear soon, but he might not.

So Seguin doesn't go traitor in this timeline eh? Still, I'm surprised he'd be popular enough to get command of this army as opposed to someone like A.S. Johnson, though I suppose he'd be destined for bigger things than a provisional army being the career officer he is.

President Hancock? Well as the was a Dem OTL, that does imply the South is somewhat more successful in this timeline's Civil War, the Republican monopoly of the late 19th century being broken.

Can't wait to see how this turns out. And long live the Republic of Texas! :D
Nope, Seguin doesn't turn traitor, and instead rises through the military. Forgot about Johnston, but he might appear sometime during the war.
 
Nope, Seguin doesn't turn traitor, and instead rises through the military. Forgot about Johnston, but he might appear sometime during the war.

Really? I would have had him pegged as a politician, especially given the larger Tejano influence in South Texas ITTL.
 
Really? I would have had him pegged as a politician, especially given the larger Tejano influence in South Texas ITTL.
Well, probably part military, part politician. I haven't worked out any details on Seguín's past.

EDIT: Oh, and I should have another update ready this weekend. I have the day off tomorrow so I can get to work. :D
 
Well, in that era as in any there's a thin line between military and politician.

Yes, I see at least Congressman if not Senator Seguin of Houston (the more Tejano state), possibly even a cabinet or Veep slot.
 
Well, in that era as in any there's a thin line between military and politician.

Yes, I see at least Congressman if not Senator Seguin of Houston (the more Tejano state), possibly even a cabinet or Veep slot.
Thought Tejas was the more Tejano state.
 
Well, probably part military, part politician. I haven't worked out any details on Seguín's past.

EDIT: Oh, and I should have another update ready this weekend. I have the day off tomorrow so I can get to work. :D

Well in OTL he was captured by the Mexican army and "forced" to serve in the Mexican army during the Mexican American war. Before he was captured he was actually the only Mexican born "Texian" in Texas' congress.

ITTL

Here you moved the Mex-American war ten years earlier so it occurs as part of the Texas Revolution. Most likely Seguin as part of the Tejano rebels joined the American army and helped secure Texas independence.

He might have might have been opposed to the annexation of Tejas originally. But seeing how he joined the Union army this is unlikely.

He might serve as an ambassador to several Central American countries at some point maybe California. He would make a likely candidate for the Republic of Rio Bravo. If you plan to have the Rep Rio Bravo annexed at some point he will probably be a major figure involved.

Overall he and some Cuban, politicians, will be critical in shaping how American's view hispanics.
 
This is mostly unimportant, but I thought you might find it interesting. I went through the thread and copied all of your updates to the timeline. Afterwords, I put it into Wordle and this is what was produced:

csav.png



Compare it to what was produced approximately halfway through the thread:

csa.png
 
Part Thirty-Two: The Cumberland Campaign
Time for another update! This will be a pretty big update, so I'll keep adding stuff as it gets done. Thought I'd be done by now, but it turns out it's taking me longer to fully finish it. As a bonus, once I'm done with it I'll get a map of the full campaign up. :D


Part Thirty-Two: The Cumberland Campaign

Cumberland Campaign: In 1863, the Confederates launched their most successful campaigns of the war. The most prominent of these was the Cumberland Campaign, which took place from February to July of 1863. The campaign began with the Army of the Carolinas moving west from Charlotte across the Appalachians into Tennessee. Combined with another offensive by the Army of Georgia northward, Knoxville became threatened once again. While the Union won the Battle of Knoxville, it was at great cost and there were many casualties on both sides. The Army of Georgia turned back, but the Army of the Carolinas instead moved northeast. The army soon reached Greeneville, hometown of President Johnson. General James Longstreet ordered the burning of Greeneville, and much of the town's population fled west to nearby Morristown.

After the Greeneville Massacre, Longstreet and the Army of the Carolinas went north then west toward the Cumberland Gap, reaching the gap on April 10th. As the army entered Kentucky, a message was sent to Lieutenant General Nathan Bedford Forrest and the Second Corps of the Army of Northern Virginia, which was waiting in Charleston. Upon receiving the message, Forrest began moving the Second Corps west following the Kanawha River and the Teays Valley, reaching Huntingon and the Ohio River on May 3rd.

As Forrest went west, Longstreet continued travelling north. On April 14th, the Army of the Carolinas reached Williamsburg, Kentucky but was prevented from continuing north by the Army of the Wabash. Over the next three days, Longstreet managed to defeat General Carlos Buell and the Army of the Wabash but it was a close affair. Longstreet and the army continued north almost unopposed over the next three weeks along the route of the Batlimore and Ohio railroad that ran through central Kentucky. However, Buell managed to catch up to Longstreet at Danville on May 5th. Buell defeated Longstreet on this occasion and diverted the Army of the Carolinas from its path toward Frankfort. But this only made Longstreet swing toward Lexington and continue north after a few days of reorganizing.

Meanwhile, Forrest moved the Second Corps west along the Ohio River, and attempted to cross it several times. The first attempt was at Scunthorpe[1], a major iron town along the northern bank of the Ohio. Forrest failed to achieve a crossing of the river at Furnace on May 5th and was blocked by the Union Army of the Ohio, and decided to continue moving the corps along the southern bank. Forrest attempted further crossings at Portsmouth and Manchester, but had no luck. After another failed crossing at Aberdeen, Forrest had the Second Corps rest for a few days in Dover, Kentucky on May 18th.

[1] Ironton, Ohio
 
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Wow, Longstreet burning down a city in a state his cause has a possibility of winning over? Never saw that coming, nor would I have thought that would be in his character. I like that you have him commanding an army though, this is a man truely ahead of his time in his tactics.
 
Wow, Longstreet burning down a city in a state his cause has a possibility of winning over? Never saw that coming, nor would I have thought that would be in his character. I like that you have him commanding an army though, this is a man truely ahead of his time in his tactics.
Well, Greeneville is in the more staunchly Union part of the state, and he is frustrated after another failure to take Knoxville. But I was having trouble finding a possible Confederate general who would plausibly order Greeneville to be burnt down. Find me a more plausible replacement and I'll put them there instead. For now though, I'll chalk it up to butterflies in his character. After all, he's only 7 or 8 years old at the time of the POD.
 
wilcox, I wouldn't worry too much. There's a fairly reasonable cost-benefit analysis there that could lead a lot of people to agreeing with the plan. Attacking the enemy commander where he lives (or, in this case, lived) can be hugely demoralizing. A bold strike like that could set the enemy up for a pretty nasty fall, so it's a reasonable tradeoff. Longstreet might not have done that OTL, but it's worth noting that OTL he wouldn't have known what to burn, given Lincoln's nomadic childhood. With Johnson, he has a set target, well within reach, and if it causes some grief to the man in charge on the other side, it might make his job easier in the long run.
 
did you ever name the war? how about War of Succession or War of Presidential Succession? instead of war of seccession as in OTL. btw I love this so far and this TL is one of the reasons I joined the site. so thanks wilcox
 
Question from a While Back...

I have been following this TL for a while and really enjoying it, but I seem to have missed something... what happened that butterflied Indian Removal?

The lack of the Trail of Tears in this TL has perplexed me for a few weeks. Did I overlook something in the story?
 
Well, Greeneville is in the more staunchly Union part of the state, and he is frustrated after another failure to take Knoxville. But I was having trouble finding a possible Confederate general who would plausibly order Greeneville to be burnt down. Find me a more plausible replacement and I'll put them there instead. For now though, I'll chalk it up to butterflies in his character. After all, he's only 7 or 8 years old at the time of the POD.

Nathan Bedford Forrest? He's certainly no gentleman and Fort Pillow OTL shows what he's capable of. He won't order such a thing, but he'd look the other way while his men had their way.

Especially given he's from Tennessee.
 
did you ever name the war? how about War of Succession or War of Presidential Succession? instead of war of seccession as in OTL. btw I love this so far and this TL is one of the reasons I joined the site. so thanks wilcox
I have it called the War Between the States in some parts I think, but I haven't decided if that will remain the 'official' name for the war. And welcome to the board! :)

I have been following this TL for a while and really enjoying it, but I seem to have missed something... what happened that butterflied Indian Removal?

The lack of the Trail of Tears in this TL has perplexed me for a few weeks. Did I overlook something in the story?
I mentinoed the Indian Removel policies in the first couple sections of the timeline, but can't remember exactly which parts.

Nathan Bedford Forrest? He's certainly no gentleman and Fort Pillow OTL shows what he's capable of. He won't order such a thing, but he'd look the other way while his men had their way.

Especially given he's from Tennessee.
Well, I already have Forrest commanding the Second Corps of the Army of Northern Virginia. I actually think I'll keep Longstreet there since by now changes in childhood and upbringing should be starting to have more influence now.


Also, added a bit more to the Cumberland Campaign. Can anyone guess where this is going? :D
 
I found the post that mentioned Indian Removal. Seems that they were removed and ended up in Arkansaw and parts of OTL Indian Territory, yet Indian Territory was never established. I suppose that could happen pretty easily, and could even lead to less poverty for the tribes.
 
early gettysburg. btw thanks for making Duluth a state capital. we are the Pearl of America's North Coast
Maybe. I haven't decided exactly how much of a turning point it will be for whoever wins. And you're welcome.

Seems to me it's more like a Perryville campaign. Two seperate forces merging to fight a decisive battle against the enemy.
Yep, the armies are going to be meeting somewhere, but where? ;)

I found the post that mentioned Indian Removal. Seems that they were removed and ended up in Arkansaw and parts of OTL Indian Territory, yet Indian Territory was never established. I suppose that could happen pretty easily, and could even lead to less poverty for the tribes.
I hadn't considered the effects on the economic status of native Americans that came with the changes I made to the Indian Removal. Thanks. :)
 
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