Union and Liberty: An American TL

[wilcoxchar]

Hmmm, yeah, I will change Queretaro to Zacatecas.

And here's the other map for this update. I couldn't decide which part of the colonial bit I wanted to show, but this is the one that I think would be most difficult to picture. So here it is.

 

[vultan]

Could we get a political map of all of North America?
Also, could you give us a hint as to how close America is ending its territorial expansion, or has it only just begun?

 

[wilcoxchar]

Could we get a political map of all of North America?
Also, could you give us a hint as to how close America is ending its territorial expansion, or has it only just begun?

Most of the current political map of North America was put in the languages map. But here's a map showing only the political divide of the continent.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/wilcoxchar/NorthAmericaCountries1860.png

Only showing the link because resizing the map made the borders fuzzy and hard to see.

 

[Venusian Si]

I like the possibility of a Cental American Union ala EU. It gives the area lots of possibilities. This nice. And the Mormon Greenland (but I think that is way more far fetched but still really cool).

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Already in the OTL, the region we consider Central America is becoming very intergrated. In fact, it wouldn't be surprising if Central America did unite into a future nation-state in a few decades from now. Still, imagine if some Central American Union had the resources, influence, and industry of Mexico without a politically united Mexico to gobble it up. In any case, the states of TTL's Central America and Mexico would probably need to unite to avoid Economic Colonization in this World, especially if Gran Columbia and California survives.

Now for the C.A.U. itself, I would imagine it would at least be somewhat E.U.-esque Organization with possibly the U.S, Britain, and or Gran Columbia as observers. As an economic union with the combined power of Mexican and Central American resources, the C.A.U.'s corporations, Celebrities, etc would probably have more of a global reach, if not by much.

But I am still hoping for an independent California. At least in some parts south of the San Fransisco Bay if the US really puts pressure into annexing it.

Now you've really given me an awesome idea. What if the United States annexed most of California, but let the Districts of San Diego and Baja become their own country along with the Southwest Corner of Canon and the Southern Third of San Luis Obispo? I would personally love this, pay for it and maybe even give up Mormon Greenland for it.

Now as for the nation's name, I would suggest San Diego, since San Diego would most likely be its biggest City and Capital. Plus, it would probably be akward to keep the name California. (Personally, I would prefer a San ***** style name to California anyway, despite my secular worldview.)

And for the nation's culture? It would be the best chance to preserve Califonia's distinct Hispanic culture since TTL's California can't possibly hope to perserve it at the rate things are going.

Best of all, this timeline offers the best oppurtunity for us to have a Realistically Independent Baja California Penisula or an independent San Diego Penisula if my wish comes true.

And just for good measure, here's California's internal divisions map again.

 

[jycee]

Most of the current political map of North America was put in the languages map. But here's a map showing only the political divide of the continent.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/wilcoxchar/NorthAmericaCountries1860.png

Only showing the link because resizing the map made the borders fuzzy and hard to see.

Wilcox:
for the map it seems Venezuela is part of Colombia, or rather Gran Colombia. Did Bolivar's Dream become a reality ITTL? If I am not mistaken the fragmentation of Gran Colombia occurred earlier than the TL POD (although not 100% sure). If it did, have the south-American leaders fixed their differences and reunited"

Now you've really given me an awesome idea. What if the United States annexed most of California, but let the Districts of San Diego and Baja become their own country along with the Southwest Corner of Canon and the Southern Third of San Luis Obispo? I would personally love this, pay for it and maybe even give up Mormon Greenland for it.

Now as for the nation's name, I would suggest San Diego, since San Diego would most likely be its biggest City and Capital. Plus, it would probably be akward to keep the name California. (Personally, I would prefer a San ***** style name to California anyway, despite my secular worldview.)

And for the nation's culture? It would be the best chance to preserve Califonia's distinct Hispanic culture since TTL's California can't possibly hope to perserve it at the rate things are going.

Best of all, this timeline offers the best oppurtunity for us to have a Realistically Independent Baja California Penisula or an independent San Diego Penisula if my wish comes true.

And just for good measure, here's California's internal divisions map again.

I would like California to keep a bit more of its territory. From the map lets say the districts of Yerba Buena, Monterrey, San Luis, San Diego, Baja, and the southern portion of Mojane and Cañon (those two are pretty much deserts so I really don't see the US having much interest in them). Particularly since Monterrey is the capital it seems logical for that to stay Californio. (It could also annex Sonora).
The name will probably still be California since that is the historical name. But rest assured there will be a lot more San-something towns everywhere.

That little country would have so much potential. It has so far been enjoying quite a stable run (this would possibly continue). With a generation past independence it has definitely grown its own identity and continue to do so. If it stays large enough it can actually beat the US to the immigration (and that whole shining city thing) even though it is smaller. This would be a huge cultural butterfly. In a way you could turn it into something that feels like OTL's Canada but hispanic, and warm (maybe a bit more conservative on the social side as well due to Catholic and LDS influences).

For the CAU you could have a progressive leader like Benito Juarez (I am guessing he is president of Oaxaca right now) get things started early on. Besides Juarez Oaxaca also has Profirio Diaz. Because Oaxaca controls the isthmus of Tehuantepec it will attract lots of entrepreneurship and investment from Europe and the US before any canal gets built anywhere. Like Costa Rica ITTL it can grow much more prosperous.

 

[wilcoxchar]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Already in the OTL, the region we consider Central America is becoming very intergrated. In fact, it wouldn't be surprising if Central America did unite into a future nation-state in a few years from now. Still, imagine if some Central American Union had the resources, influence, and industry of Mexico without a politically united Mexico to gobble it up. In any case, the states of TTL's Central America and Mexico would probably need to unite to avoid Economic Colonization in this World, especially if Gran Columbia and California survives.

Now for the C.A.U. itself, I would imagine it would at least be somewhat E.U.-esque Organization with possibly the U.S, Britain, and or Gran Columbia as observers. As an economic union with the combined power of Mexican and Central American resources, the C.A.U.'s corporations, Celebrities, etc would probably have more of a global reach, if not by much.

Ooh, a C.A.U. does sound like a good idea. And a friend did say that I don't have enough pan-nationalism outside Europe.

Wilcox:
for the map it seems Venezuela is part of Colombia, or rather Gran Colombia. Did Bolivar's Dream become a reality ITTL? If I am not mistaken the fragmentation of Gran Colombia occurred earlier than the TL POD (although not 100% sure). If it did, have the south-American leaders fixed their differences and reunited"

I've been wavering on whether to have Gran Colombia exist in the timeline. In OTL the differences between Bolivar and Santander were apparent by 1825, and the country fell apart in 1831. So there are only a few years to work with after the POD, but maybe the survival of Bolivar past 1830 would help? Or I guess I could have the country fall apart but be recreated some time later.

Now you've really given me an awesome idea. What if the United States annexed most of California, but let the Districts of San Diego and Baja become their own country along with the Southwest Corner of Canon and the Southern Third of San Luis Obispo? I would personally love this, pay for it and maybe even give up Mormon Greenland for it.

Now as for the nation's name, I would suggest San Diego, since San Diego would most likely be its biggest City and Capital. Plus, it would probably be akward to keep the name California. (Personally, I would prefer a San ***** style name to California anyway, despite my secular worldview.)

And for the nation's culture? It would be the best chance to preserve Califonia's distinct Hispanic culture since TTL's California can't possibly hope to perserve it at the rate things are going.

Best of all, this timeline offers the best oppurtunity for us to have a Realistically Independent Baja California Penisula or an independent San Diego Penisula if my wish comes true.

And just for good measure, here's California's internal divisions map again.

I would like California to keep a bit more of its territory. From the map lets say the districts of Yerba Buena, Monterrey, San Luis, San Diego, Baja, and the southern portion of Mojane and Cañon (those two are pretty much deserts so I really don't see the US having much interest in them). Particularly since Monterrey is the capital it seems logical for that to stay Californio. (It could also annex Sonora).
The name will probably still be California since that is the historical name. But rest assured there will be a lot more San-something towns everywhere.

That little country would have so much potential. It has so far been enjoying quite a stable run (this would possibly continue). With a generation past independence it has definitely grown its own identity and continue to do so. If it stays large enough it can actually beat the US to the immigration (and that whole shining city thing) even though it is smaller. This would be a huge cultural butterfly. In a way you could turn it into something that feels like OTL's Canada but hispanic, and warm (maybe a bit more conservative on the social side as well due to Catholic and LDS influences).

For the CAU you could have a progressive leader like Benito Juarez (I am guessing he is president of Oaxaca right now) get things started early on. Besides Juarez Oaxaca also has Profirio Diaz. Because Oaxaca controls the isthmus of Tehuantepec it will attract lots of entrepreneurship and investment from Europe and the US before any canal gets built anywhere. Like Costa Rica ITTL it can grow much more prosperous.

And now I'm conflicted on California. I want to bring it into the US so that the United States can have a more Hispanic influence, but the idea of an independent California as has been suggested sounds like a fun idea to play with.

 

[Solarius]

Perhaps you could have immigrants from Mexico flow more into the USA

 

[jycee]

Ooh, a C.A.U. does sound like a good idea. And a friend did say that I don't have enough pan-nationalism outside Europe.

I've been wavering on whether to have Gran Colombia exist in the timeline. In OTL the differences between Bolivar and Santander were apparent by 1825, and the country fell apart in 1831. So there are only a few years to work with after the POD, but maybe the survival of Bolivar past 1830 would help? Or I guess I could have the country fall apart but be recreated some time later.

And now I'm conflicted on California. I want to bring it into the US so that the United States can have a more Hispanic influence, but the idea of an independent California as has been suggested sounds like a fun idea to play with.

As for the C.A.U. if its going to be formed through pan nationalism I think it needs a better name as "Central American" would be suffer from misidentification from American. Latino won't be coined till the 1950s (and due to butterflies it might never become popular). But something like "La Union Hispano-Americana" fits.

For Gran Colombia, I think it is great if you keep it whatever the cause was. Bolivar living longer is neat or better if it gets created later as a side effect of the CAU (or whatever you are going to call it).

As for California, you can have both. The US being more hispanic and an independent and prosperous California. As it has been said the US can annex most of the North West of California (and because you've hinted it) it can also annex the Rio Bravo Rep and the Gulf Coast (since it already has its foot in Veracruz). Have California annex Sonora, and split Chihuahua between the two so Cali gets a much larger coast.

Though a more hispanic US very interesting. Rum is already there but if combined with agave (it cant be called tequila only Oaxaca will have the honor ITTL) it could butterfly prohibition (or a large part of it). Even though you have hinted that parts of the US are heading in that direction.

These events of expansionism could also be the trigger of the pan-hispanic movements further south. Diaz, who hated the US (even though he loved US investment), would dislike having the US border anywhere near Oaxaca.

Also if California keeps the Nappa Valley, combined with Esenada in Baja, it can become a major wine exporter (beating France) way earlier than OTL. This would definitely boost Californio national identity.

 

[lothaw]

And now I'm conflicted on California. I want to bring it into the US so that the United States can have a more Hispanic influence, but the idea of an independent California as has been suggested sounds like a fun idea to play with.

All hail Emperor Norton?

 

[wilcoxchar]

Bah, stupid Constitutional ambiguities. Might be a bit longer before I have the next update done, and I have no idea how plausible this will be, but I like the idea.

 

[wilcoxchar]

There we go, got the update done. Again, I have no clue how plausible or constitutional this is, but it's a crisis, so constitutionality doesn't matter yet.

Part Twenty-Eight: A Constitutional Crisis

The Death of Samuel Houston:
While Houston had done well in reaching compromise during his first term in office, his second term was more divided as the southerners were desiring more concessions. Houston's refusal to intervene in the collapse of Mexico created a rift between him and many expansion-minded constituents in the south and led to Jefferson Davis goin on his own filibustering expedition. This rift continued to widen in the first year of his second term upon the death of Roger Brooke Taney. In his place, Houston appointed Abraham Lincoln of Illinois as the Chief Justice of the United States. During Lincoln's confirmation process, previous cases regarding slavery in Illinois were brought up, showing Lincoln arguing both for and against slavery. His exact position on slavery was never revealed at the nomination hearings, but he was narrowly nominated by Congress to the post.

In December 1861, Vice President James A. Bayard fell ill and caught pneumonia in the unusually harsh winter of that year. Only a few weeks later, President Houston was shot after a speech in Raleigh, North Carolina. With the President and the Vice President both incapacitated, Congress convened to determine what should be done. The Constitution at the time was unclear and conflicting in what to do in this situation. While Calhoun had taken the title of Acting President upon the death of Andrew Jackson, he did not take the title of President until his election in 1836. This left the succession rules open for debate. Some suggested that the succession be determined by the House of Representatives as it was in 1824, but there were no clear candidates and a system was not put in place to select candidates in the short time frame necessary. Others suggested that the President pro Tempore of the Senate take the office, but many Congressmen objected. After a month, Congress created a Joint Emergency Presidential Selection Committee. However, this committee would prove to be very controversial during the month of February and the course of selecting who would succeed Houston as President.

 

[Guildencrantz]

Interesting times for the US...

 

[hzn5pk]

Did both die? I will assume yes, but it could be that Houston was shot and can recover over time.

In the immediate aftermath of the assassination, who took over, who led the different departments of Houston's cabinet.

The Executive branch in 1861 is not as complicated as it is now, but it had grown since the 1780's. Who is looking after the day to day stuff?

The assassination could bring the country together.

Who was the assassin and what were his motives?

What is the aftermath?

It also could make room for more a more expansionist minded regime to enter and take California and any other of the former Mexican states.

 

[KingByng]

I must say I am thoroughly enjoying this.

 

[lothaw]

Very interesting times. Who was Houston's assassin and what were his motives anyways?

Also, I guess the two primary claimants to the Presidency would be the Speaker of the House and the Secretary of State(who was often considered the heir to the Presidency in early US history, moreso than the VP).

Also, Chief Justice Abe Lincoln... I can very easily see that but for a small twist of fate.

Oh, and yay me for calling Houston being President when the Civil War started some ten pages ago. Mr Houston's assassin may well have fired "the shot that broke the Union."

 

[The Doctor]

Whats next! I need to KNOW!

 

[lothaw]

Whats next! I need to KNOW!

For some reason I see Chief Justice Abe Lincoln overseeing a treason trial for Jefferson Davis. That'd be ironic enough anyways.

 

[Tobit]

How about this:

The Californian Republic goes along its merry way. With the final settlement on a very Roman Constitution. Power in the hands of senate full of landed aristocrats, while the populace is appeased with Populare Referendums held infrequently. During times of Crisis (mainly economic or natural in the serene republic) a dictator is given power for a one year term.

This system works fine until at one time a great and wise industrialist by the name of Joshua Abraham Norton becomes very influential. He is loved by the people of San Francisco and Los Angeles. In the end he comes to dominate the nation. Until the Senate attempts to assassinate him. When he fully takes power under the name Emperor Norton. He conquers all of mexico and central america

From that point on all emperors of California are named Norton. California eventually unites the entire pacific Rim.

 

[jycee]

There we go, got the update done. Again, I have no clue how plausible or constitutional this is, but it's a crisis, so constitutionality doesn't matter yet.

Well as Chief Justice, I guess it is Abraham Lincoln's say on what is constitutional and what is not.

I have to say this is a very interesting twist of fate.

Really looking forward to the next update

 

[wilcoxchar]

Wow that's a lot of feedback. I'll try to get an update done today or tomorrow, but classes started today so things are a little hectic. I'll answer a few common questions now.

--
Who is running the government? As per the Presidential Succession Act of 1792, in times when both the president and vice president are incapable of performing their duties, the President pro Tempore of the Senate becomes acting President. I'm not sure who this is at the moment, but I'll make that clear in the next update. As for the Cabinet, I don't recall any changes of the Cabinet that early upon the death of a president until the new president was sworn in.

Who is the assassin and why did he do it? I'm still working on that part. Trying to decide if having a southerner kill Houston would cause more rifts in the Union than having some unaffiliated person doing it. But it will probably be a southerner or someone with southern sympathies.

Who is likely to become the next President? I'm thinking the three most likely candidates would be the President pro Tempore of the Senate, the Secretary of State, and the Speaker of the House. Who they are will be revealed in the next update. Who becomes President...might be revealed in the next update.

What's going on with Joshua Norton? Well, he's probably still in South Africa with the Cali Gold Rush being delayed. So no Emperor Norton for you!
--

Might start putting in some of the Great Men et. al. sections soon. For Great Men so far, I'm thinking Henry Clay and or course, Sam Houston.