Union and Liberty: An American TL

Awesome TL. Most TL writers don't make note of the old schism in mormonism and for that I love this TL. If you need any information on mormonism I know a lot about morman history and have plenty of reference material on LDS beliefs.
Thanks! While the Mormon split probably didn't have the same cause and reasons for it in this timeline, it will have a large effect later on.

Wilcoxchar a few questions on Cuba

What is the condition of the large number of mulattos in the state? Many of them were freemen before annexation. Though Spanish rule in Cuba was brutal, my guess is besides the slaves the underclasses are doing a bit better. Have some of them moved north? If they did had they had any influence on the North? Culturally this could be quite interesting by having some Cuban tunes (and rum) affect Puritan values early on.

Believe it or not you could have some interesting cultural butterflies if you manage to make rum more popular than whiskey / scotch / bourbon style drinks (extroversive vs. introversive drinks). Plus the economic change of needing to grow more cane, crop that can become more profitable than cotton in a near future (it did so for Brazil in OTL).
I haven't really thought about Cuban migration to the mainland. Probably more migration to the already more cosmopolitan east coast cities like New York and Baltimore than New England, I agree that it will at least make rum more popular in those areas. The free mulattos will most likely not have changed much yet.

Will Cuba have interesting effects on the Civil War. With Havana as a large port in the South it might change this big time. If it joins the South, the North will have a harder time placing a blockade as the South might actually have a navy this time. While if it chooses to join the North, or have internal fighting, the South might be quite screwed and the Civil War might be much shorter.

Finally I noticed Cuba's electoral vote is still 3. With a census in 1860 shouldn't it have gone up significantly?

Looking forward to the next installment.
Yeah, Cuba will have a big impact on the Civil War. I haven't decided how it's going to go, but I'm getting some interseting ideas as I type this. :p

The reason Cuba still has only 3 electoral votes is because the census only affects the electoral vots of that coming decade. So the 1860 census would change the votes for 1864 and 1868.
 
Always interesting and insightful! :)

I'm also curious about the effects of the larger Espanophone population re Cuba. How does this affect US language and culture? Will the Tejanos (Hispanic Texans--or, well, Tejasians and Houstonians ATL) have a bigger place at the table ATL? Will Juan Seguin have a larger role in US politics?
 
I'm also curious about the effects of the larger Espanophone population re Cuba. How does this affect US language and culture? Will the Tejanos (Hispanic Texans--or, well, Tejasians and Houstonians ATL) have a bigger place at the table ATL? Will Juan Seguin have a larger role in US politics?[/QUOTE]

we could see a non white president much earlier then :)
 
Thanks! While the Mormon split probably didn't have the same cause and reasons for it in this timeline, it will have a large effect later on.

It seems to be close to OTL to me. Historicaly it happened after Joseph Smith was killed and the church split based on who people thought should be the next prophet. Hyrum's group belived that Joseph's descendants should be the prophets while Brigahm's group belived in a slightly democratic way of picking the prophet though this isn't very well defined in secular terms.
 
Always interesting and insightful! :)

I'm also curious about the effects of the larger Espanophone population re Cuba. How does this affect US language and culture? Will the Tejanos (Hispanic Texans--or, well, Tejasians and Houstonians ATL) have a bigger place at the table ATL? Will Juan Seguin have a larger role in US politics?
Hispanophones will have a bigger role earlier in this timeline. There's already been a Hispanophone governor. And thanks for reminding me about Juan Seguin, I was looking for a non-Cuban Hispanophone to do something with in the 1860s and 1870s. :D

we could see a non white president much earlier then :)
Perhaps. ;)

It seems to be close to OTL to me. Historicaly it happened after Joseph Smith was killed and the church split based on who people thought should be the next prophet. Hyrum's group belived that Joseph's descendants should be the prophets while Brigahm's group belived in a slightly democratic way of picking the prophet though this isn't very well defined in secular terms.
Hmmm. I'll accept your judgement, I admit I'm not that familiar with the history of the Mormons.

And a white but hispanophone speaker earlier than that, perhaps. Oh, the irony in a President Calhoun TL. ;)
Ain't irony great? :p
 
A little enticement while I type up the rest of the next update. I think I may have overstated the settlement of a lot of areas and the extent of Gaelic, but oh well. By the way, in OTL the most common language among the Fathers of Confederation in Canada was Gaelic (thank you Wiki).

North America Languages 1860 resized.png
 
A little enticement while I type up the rest of the next update. I think I may have overstated the settlement of a lot of areas and the extent of Gaelic, but oh well. By the way, in OTL the most common language among the Fathers of Confederation in Canada was Gaelic (thank you Wiki).
Serious Dutch-Wank in Calhoun!
 
Serious Dutch-Wank in Calhoun!
Yep. Some spots are probably more native, but that's what you get with lots of Dutch immigrants and a sparsely populated area. :p

EDIT: The next update is ready. I'll post it once there is another post so it won't be at the bottom of the page.
 
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Yep. Some spots are probably more native, but that's what you get with lots of Dutch immigrants and a sparsely populated area. :p

EDIT: The next update is ready. I'll post it once there is another post so it won't be at the bottom of the page.

So you need someone to end the page?:D
 
Part Twenty-Six: Demographic Effects
So you need someone to end the page?:D
Yes indeed. :D And for that, I give you the next update!

Part Twenty-Six: Demographic Effects

Reform from Religion: While the Second Great Awakening had mostly already run its course, the political ramifications of the movements it created were only beginning. During the middle of the 19th century, the idea that the world needed to be reformed to achieve the Second Coming of Christ spawned a number of unitopical movements[1]. One of the earliest movements was abolitionism, which was prominent in the 1840s and 1850s. Later in the century there would be many other campaigns surrounding particular issues, such as the moderation[2] movement that advocated banning the production and sale of alcohol that was moderately successful in the southern states. The 1870s and 1880s also saw a rise in nativism and anti-Catholicism as a reaction to the rise in immigration of Poles and Italians after the Piave War[3].


Census of 1860: Though the nation had been growing throughout its history, the United States census in 1860 showed many remarkable changes in the past decade. First was the sheer increase in the population of the United States. The first official national census in the state of Cuba since the state was added to the Union showed that the island held a population of over one million people. That population statistic led to an increase in seven electoral votes in Cuba, bringing the votes for Cuba to ten, the same number of votes as was given to Georgia and Maryland. Adding in the incorporation of Cuba, the population of the United States had grown by over ten million in a decade for the first time in its history. The country now held almost thirty-five million people.

With the increase in population, many cities had flourished. In the south, New Orleans and Pensacola continued to take in immigrants from South America, Further along the Mississippi, the area around the confluence of the Mississippi and Ohio rivers had greatly increased in population since 1850, with Saint Louis and Cairo doubling in population. Other cities in the Old Northwest including Chicago and Cincinatti also experienced large influxes of people.


California Gold Rush: In California, the population had grown to over one-hundred and fifty thousand by 1860. The majority of this growth was immigration, with the Mormon settlement in the east of the country and immigrants from Mexico in the south. However, California was not finished growing. The gold rush that occurred during the first half of the 1860s would almost double the population. Immigrants from not only the United States but South American countries such as Chile and Bolivia and a few from the Far East flocked to California.

In 1863, the Californio majority became worried about the number of Americans entering their country, claiming that the immigration was diluting California's religious and linguistic identity. The California legislature passed a bill restricting American-owned gold mines, and thus much of the American immigrants, to the eastern side of the Sierra Nevada. While there were some protests, few plots owned by American immigrants were west of those mountains, so there was not much displeasure among the Americans. Another consequence of the California Gold Rush in the 1860s would be the San Xavier Purchase, in which the remainder of what is now Colorado was purchased from California after the local population called for the area to join the United States.

[1] Single issue campaigns
[2] The temperance movement
[3] Not sure if this is what the war will be called, but La Guerra Piavare sounded nice in Italian :p
 
You are just delaying an Civil War update for suspense, are you not?

Cultural updates are just as nice as political and military ones. And also as important so this is pretty cool.
On the language thing seeing as Cuba and half of Tejas speak spanish as their language and the prominence of German in Itasca and Pembina and that of Dutch in Calhoun will this affect language laws and education in the US? I know the German and Dutch was similar in OTL but by adding Cuba you are adding a significant hispanophone population.

Also looking forward to a map with the added San Xavier purchase. I guess it includes most of OTL's Colorado that remained Californian but I expect the borders to be different. (It is nice to have a US with almost no straight line border states, even though Calhoun and Kearney do look kinda square).

(unfortunately the update did fall at the bottom of the page).
 
A little enticement while I type up the rest of the next update. I think I may have overstated the settlement of a lot of areas and the extent of Gaelic, but oh well. By the way, in OTL the most common language among the Fathers of Confederation in Canada was Gaelic (thank you Wiki).
TTL Canada will be very interesting in terms of culture.
 
Could we get some ethnic/racial/relgious demographics for America and California? Like in America, what percentage of the population is Hispanic and such, and how the exact percentages of white protestants, Mormons, Hispanics, and East Asians in California? Which brings me to another question: I may have missed this, but are the major immigrant groups to the US in this TL Germans and Irish like in OTL, or are they significantly different?
 
You are just delaying an Civil War update for suspense, are you not?
I may be delaying it for suspense, or I may keep thinking of other events to add that just happen to be before the Civil War. :D

Cultural updates are just as nice as political and military ones. And also as important so this is pretty cool.
On the language thing seeing as Cuba and half of Tejas speak spanish as their language and the prominence of German in Itasca and Pembina and that of Dutch in Calhoun will this affect language laws and education in the US? I know the German and Dutch was similar in OTL but by adding Cuba you are adding a significant hispanophone population.
I don't recall the history of language laws in the US, but there will definitely be more states adopting both English and whatever the secondary language is as use for government documents.

Also looking forward to a map with the added San Xavier purchase. I guess it includes most of OTL's Colorado that remained Californian but I expect the borders to be different. (It is nice to have a US with almost no straight line border states, even though Calhoun and Kearney do look kinda square).
Yeah, but the straight lines are there because it's hard to find natural boundaries in the west. :p

(unfortunately the update did fall at the bottom of the page).
Well, actually, I'd forgotten that my settings have 20 posts per page, so it fell in the middle of the page for me. :D

TTL Canada will be very interesting in terms of culture.
Yep, they certainly will. I have very interesting developments planned for British North America. ;)

Could we get some ethnic/racial/relgious demographics for America and California? Like in America, what percentage of the population is Hispanic and such, and how the exact percentages of white protestants, Mormons, Hispanics, and East Asians in California? Which brings me to another question: I may have missed this, but are the major immigrant groups to the US in this TL Germans and Irish like in OTL, or are they significantly different?
I don't have any specifics at the moment but I could try to get something together. The major immigrant groups in the US are currently the Germans, Irish, and Dutch, although Dutch was only a minor spike in the 1840s. The Spanish or Latin American immigrants are still minor in numbers, and concentrated in Jackson and Texas, but they're still having some impact.
 
Yeah, but the straight lines are there because it's hard to find natural boundaries in the west. :p

Actually quite a few: mountain ranges (most notably the Continental Divide and Sierra Nevada) and Rivers (the Colorado is a biggie).

In the midwest, yea...pancakeville. Once you reach the Rockies (where the ATL border is here) there's all manner of interesting stuff.

I'd advise the San Xavier going to the Colorado river or Colorado-Green rivers.
 
I like these sorts of updates in TLs every now and again; very informative. Thanks.
I like these as well. They round out a timeline and give you a look at the less obvious effects of how the world is developing.

Actually quite a few: mountain ranges (most notably the Continental Divide and Sierra Nevada) and Rivers (the Colorado is a biggie).

In the midwest, yea...pancakeville. Once you reach the Rockies (where the ATL border is here) there's all manner of interesting stuff.

I'd advise the San Xavier going to the Colorado river or Colorado-Green rivers.
Actually, I think the Midwest is easier for making natural borders because of all the tributaries of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. Out west, everything between the Sierra Nevada and the Continental Divide is pretty much nothing, except for the Colorado and its tributaries. Also, I didn't want the state to go that far west, and the Continental Divde is already the border. And where I have the border set all the rivers are going east-west, and the mountain ranges aren't very lined up for a border. However I just found another planned border that I can change from straight to a natural border, so I can assure you that there will be few straight borders in the west.
 
What Happened to Indian Removal?

I skimmed through the timeline again but I am still confused on how Indian Removal went differently in your timeline. Where did those couple hundred thousand Native Americans end up in your timeline?
 
I skimmed through the timeline again but I am still confused on how Indian Removal went differently in your timeline. Where did those couple hundred thousand Native Americans end up in your timeline?
The major difference is that the government was a bit more willing to provide compensation or compromise to the Natve Americans. So instead of being forcefully removed, many were provided with compensation for the lands or were allowed to purchase land to settle on from the government. ITTL it was really only the Cherokee that ended up being forced to move west.

By now in the timeline, the tribes that moved west of their own accord have probably either remained in Calhoun despite settlers moving in or have moved again, probably to the sparsely populated southern New Mexico Territory.
 
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