Union and Liberty: An American TL

In the Pacific, the British brought California into the war on the side of the New Coalition in the beginning of 1907. Soon after the San Francisco earthquake, the California government had gone bankrupt and agreed to enter an alliance with Great Britain and sell Clipperton Island and Isla Socorro to the British in exchange for annulling all its debts. Soon after California entered the war, the British moved the ships in Prince Rupert to Alameda to put them in a more useful position.

I guess we had all forgotten the Earthquake was bound to happen. Man, Cali is about to face some tough times me thinks. Though they seem to have a decent navy, so once again with Japan and California on their side the coalition is kinda bound to dominate the Pacific. Can't quite no how Corea and France are gona pull off a victory here.

If France wins i imagine that they'd want Basque Country but how does Andora play into this with its enemy neighbors

Maybe a chunk of basque country, but I can also see the French stirring some Baque and Catalan nationalism soon, to get them into their side on the promise of independence. However at the same time Spain managed to hold its shit together in TTL and thus irredentism amongst the minorities might be less than OTL.

Speaking of Europe, I really wish hope consider detaching Croatia from Hungary....it just doesn't look right. :(

I think they've been Magyarising Croatia for quite some time now, so if it's split off, it'll probably just be Dalmatia and the rest of the coast.

Agree that it doesn't quite looks right, but it is likely Hungary has been magyarising - at the very least Slavonia - for a while. Perhaps if Illyria joins the winning side, Central Croatia and Dalmatia could be attached to it and form a small kind of Yugoslavia. Or Ragusa expands into Dalmatia and revives ancient Dalmatia, just cause.

I'm surprised the Italians haven't at least tried to take Corsica yet.

I think the Italians are being a bit overwhelmed.


Keep it up Wilcox this is certainly coming together in quite an epic way. Best war update I've seen in a TL for a while. Certainly the one with broadest scope.
 
Wilcox, I see that on the map Baden is painted blue. Wasn't Baden supposed to be a neutral country, or is it essentially an extension of the Alliance?

It seems the Netherlands are a very strategic position for both sides if they lean with Britian then they already have a push deep into France and Germany and how are Sweden and Denmark leaning cause if they are enemy's Maby well finally see a united skandinavia

I would expect the Netherlands to stay neutral, they have nothing to gain from doing otherwise. If the side with Britain they are an easy target for Germany - unless they are too busy in the East. And if the side with the Alliance they are also easy pickings for the British Navy.

Denmark is an interesting case, because in TTL it still has some colonies. Togo and Socotra they might be persuaded with the promise of expansion by either side.

Sweden should stay neutral as that is its foreign policy at the time.
 
Indeed, armed neutrality was the only way Sweden responded to any war IOTL after Napoleon's fall, and I don't see why that'd be different ITTL. Of course, an interesting course to take is Denmark joining the war and losing, after which Scandinavist feelings peak, and a new union is formed (probably with the Swedish king at the helm, but another interesting way would be a Malaysia-esque rotational system with each country having its own ruler).
 
Indeed, armed neutrality was the only way Sweden responded to any war IOTL after Napoleon's fall, and I don't see why that'd be different ITTL. Of course, an interesting course to take is Denmark joining the war and losing, after which Scandinavist feelings peak, and a new union is formed (probably with the Swedish king at the helm, but another interesting way would be a Malaysia-esque rotational system with each country having its own ruler).

I love a united scandinavia also it could add a mix into ww2 if it comes around

I think I united Scandinavia has been done quite a few times - although not as part of a 20th century hyper-nationalist ideology.

On the other hand Scandinavian countries fighting each other with such ideologies hasn't. In TTL Denmark has a few colonies and, if I am not mistaken, it retained Schleswig-Holstein since Germany unified over issues with Austria thus it has some industrial potential it didn't have in OTL. So it is likely that Denmark much better off at the turn of the century than it was in OTL.

If Denmark joins the war and ends up in the lossing side of things, and Sweden keeps Norway post-Great War, Denmark could go hyper-nationalist in the aftermath. Later on - as a small local conflict or part of a greater conflict (WWII) - Denmark could try to invade Norway to regain some status and thus provoke Sweden into an armed conflict. It could end up with Denmark victorious or Sweden victorious and it absorbing a chunk of Denmark afterwards.

Whatever the result, if this is a small conflict it could be a precursor to the Second Great War (if there is one), where new tech and strategies are tested, the way the Spanish Civil War was to OTL's WWII.
 
Seems the Italians are holding their own in mainland Europe. Awesome :D

They do have great defensive lines along the alps, and don't have many other commitments beyond defending their home territory. They're losing ground to superior numbers.

Speaking of California joining, how in the hell are the Germans and French supposed to bring in the US against Britain? I could see a propaganda coup against the British coalition, but that's going to take some doing. And to top it off, the US is surrounded, lets not forget that, even if their surrounding potential enemies aren't exactly grade a troops, or have the industrial power to go toe-to-toe with the US, but the US would be fighting something akin to a two front war against the Californians in the west, and the assorted "Canadas" to the north. In addition, this doesn't count possible British and Japanese reinforcements to their North American allies. British troops will be coming, not so sure on the Japanese, but this does give the US the issue of having to either quickly subdue their enemies quickly, or face a long drawn out meatgrinder of a war like OTL WWI.
 
They do have great defensive lines along the alps, and don't have many other commitments beyond defending their home territory. They're losing ground to superior numbers.

Speaking of California joining, how in the hell are the Germans and French supposed to bring in the US against Britain? I could see a propaganda coup against the British coalition, but that's going to take some doing. And to top it off, the US is surrounded, lets not forget that, even if their surrounding potential enemies aren't exactly grade a troops, or have the industrial power to go toe-to-toe with the US, but the US would be fighting something akin to a two front war against the Californians in the west, and the assorted "Canadas" to the north. In addition, this doesn't count possible British and Japanese reinforcements to their North American allies. British troops will be coming, not so sure on the Japanese, but this does give the US the issue of having to either quickly subdue their enemies quickly, or face a long drawn out meatgrinder of a war like OTL WWI.

The interesting part of this is that the terrain/weather makes both fronts a bitch.

The US unsuccessfully invaded Canada twice, maybe the third time is a charm. But it will still be facing a bottleneck on the Great Lakes front, and unless they take out Montreal/Quebec in the summer, winter will come in hard on them.

Against California they have mountains and dessert. The El Paso territory gives them a good positioning to occupy San Isidro and follow the Gila River towards Yuma. But despite of that you are still looking to a long march through harsh terrain towards a bottleneck. And from Oregon to Sacramento you are looking into marching through mountains into the most populated, and likely best defended, region of California.

So Britain/Japan/Russia can't possibly think of invading the US they can hope for a naval blockade at best. And while the US is on a better position to invade and occupy it is still not at its best when it has to deal with multiple Canadas, California (and possibly Rio Bravo since it is still likely sour from the Chihuahua Intervention, btw what is that war called?) and Britain's Caribbean colonies.

Which once again raises the point, unlike OTL's WWI, I believe this Great War will be decided at sea - on almost all fronts.


I can't see TTL's Great War end up with a sound defeat like OTL. Russia might pull out because of internal strife, the Lega Mediteranea might have to concede to France if Spain falls and Budapest is occupied. But Britain might still be going for the long-haul if it concentrates its efforts at sea, where it still rules. Britain is just as likely to loose a war of attrition as France and Germany are. I think.
 
Next update should be done in the next couple days. I keep getting ideas for updates for after the Great War but that I can't do right now because they'd spoil things. :D I'll also reply to comments later today.
 
Is it just me or does the Netherlands seem like a crab's pincer.

Nice timeline. Liking the Franco-German alliance and hope to see them beat the shit out of New Coalition.
 
Part One-Hundred Six: The War Within
So I didn't get around to answering your comments. :p But I do have another update done!

Part One-Hundred Six: The War Within

The War Expands:
As 1907 began, the New Coalition and the Alliance Carolingien were still attempting to bring more countries into the war in an effort to open up new fronts or strengthen the presence on existing ones. However unlike the efforts in 1906, these had some success and expanded the scope of the Great War. California's entrance into the Great War on the side of Britain and Japan added to the New Coalition's naval power in the Pacific and expanded the conflict from close to the Asian mainland to the islands of the South Pacific. The Buenaventura Guano and Mining Company soon sought to gain from the guano deposits on the islands, after the deposits on Jarvis Island and Isla de Navidad were used up. Sanctioned by the California government, Buenaventura sent a small expedition to occupy the Tromelin Islands in February of 1907. The expedition of ten men led by Juan Batista Carrillo occupied Despointes Island[1], but their expedition encountered a storm and ran aground on Howland Island where the men lived for another month subsisting on the rations in the ship and the birds and fruit of the kou tree on the island until they were spotted by the whaler Pequot and rescued. Though the expedition failed, it signified the beginning of the Great War in the South Pacific. Soon British and Spanish ships sent expeditions to New Caleodnia and Bougainville.

In early 1907, the Alliance Carolingien was also seeking new allies to strengthen their position against the Coalition. With the nonaligned countries in Europe steadfastly neutral, France and Germany also turned their attention to the colonial sphere, this time in Africa. The Cape Fleet Expedition and the shelling of Zanzibar had hurt Germany's colonial prestige, and after the fleet returned to Cape Colony, Emperor Frederick was eager to find a way to lash back at Britain. In March of 1907, the foreign minister brought a plan to Emperor Frederick in Berlin to bring the Voortrekker Republic into the war. The emperor approved it and relayed it to President Gambetta, who agreed to have French ambassadors in Pretoria assist in convincing the Voortrekkers to enter the war. Ultimately, it would not be a very difficult task.

For decades since the consolidation of the South African Republic, there had been frequent border skirmishes between the Cape Colony and South Africa. In the 1860s, diamond and later gold mines had been discovered in and near Griqualand and in the Witwatersrand in northern South Africa. The Cape Colony laid claim to all of Griqualand in 1867 though it was a Voortrekker state. Soon prospectors were flocking to the mining towns around Griqualand such as Vooruitzigt[2], Hopetown, and Prieschap. Soon the Griqua lands were being overrun by British settlers. By this time in history, the multiracial Griqua felt more affiliation with the Voortrekkers than the Cape Colonists. Like the Voortrekkers, the Griqua spoke mostly Afrikaaner and had moved inland from the Cape. In 1872 when the South African Republic was founded, the Griqua leader Adam Kok III petitioned petitioned to join the republic, and with the value of the diamond mines in Griqua lands, was accepted. However, the Cape Colony declared war on the new republic and soon invaded Griqualand and the South African Republic.

While the Voortrekkers won the war over the next two years, the Voortrekkers took many casualties and were forced to concede much of Griqualand in the peace negotiation. At the Cape Convention in 1875, the South African Republic ceded all of Griqualand west of the Harts River, while gaining the Transkei province where some Griquas had also settled. These Griqua states had declared themselves independent as the Bastaard Republic and the Korana Republic, named after what various Griqua tribes called themselves[3]. Over the next years, many of the Griquas west of the Harts River moved to Vooruitzigt or to the Transkei and the Transkei republics were incorporated into South Africa. However, over the next decades South African and Cape prospectors often clashed in the mountains around where the Vaal entered the Orange River. After gold was discovered in the Witwatersrand in northern South Africa, Cape colonists extended their raids into that region of South Africa and the skirmishes expanded. By 1907, news of skirmishes on the Transvaal frontier was common in Pretoria and Tulbagh. So when the German ambassador Christian Mommsen went to see Staatholder Hendrik J. Schoeman[4] in Pretoria, it was fairly simple to convince Schoeman to enter into war against the British. But Schoeman was concerned that the Alliance Carolingien would ignore the African front and not give proper assistance to the Voortrekkers in the conflict. Emperor Frederick had foreseen this and had set up a preliminary plan that was presented to Schoeman to ensure the Voortrekkers joined the Alliance. The South African Republic was to receive the lost portion of Griqualand, as well as a division of the Portuguese colony of Mozambique between the Germans and South Africa. With the Partition of Mozambique planned, South Africa officially entered war against Great Britain on April 13, 1907.


Rebels and Traitors:
Along with diplomacy betwen states, the Great War affected Europe's internal politics as well. In France, reports that Francois Richard Waddington was sending French plans to the British through contacts in the French government. The former London ambassador was singled out by the French Rensignement Generaux[5] for his English surname and business connections in Great Britain. After being tried for treason in late 1906, Waddington was publicly executed by guillotine in December of that year. Whether Waddington was sending intelligence to Great Britain or whether the trial and execution was simply a propaganda stunt by the Gambetta government was a mystery for decades after the Great War. In 1948, however, it was discovered that Waddington had been transferring documents to London through Belgium.

In British North America, the start of the Great War at first only exacerbated underlying tensions in the region. The mass Irish immigration to Acadia led to anti-Catholic sentiment among the English living in Canada nad Acadia, which bled over into hatred for the French Catholics as well as the Anglo-French rivalry intensified in the latter half othe 19th century. Riots in Kingston and Toronto against the Quebecois and their supposed anti-Empire stance were mostly peaceful. However, riots by Anglo-Canadians in Montreal led to violence and retaliation by Quebecois. During an anti-French demonstration in Montreal in September 1906, several members of the group began yelling anti-Catholic and anti-Quebecois insults at a crowd exiting mass at Saint James Cathedral. Soon, the two groups escalated to violence that lasted for three hours before it was finally ended by Montreal police. In the Dorchester Square Riot six people were killed, and in the ensuing days violence between groups of Protestants and Catholics flared around Canada and Acadia. These riots, especially in Acadia, continued to escalate going into 1907 until it finally erupted in the summer of that year.

Back in Europe, the Alliance Carolingien began using tactics of inciting rebellion in the countries of the New Coalition. In the wake of the capture of Barcelona, France encouraged Catalan regionalism to reduce any loyalty to Spain and ease the occupation of Catalonia. Additionally, the French also encouraged Basque nationalism to try and expedite the takeover of Navarre and Viscaya. After Sabino Arana[6] had been exiled in 1895, the French government sent Arana to Pamplona after they took over the city to begin a base of operations for the Basques against the Spanish government. Meanwhile, Germany began encouraging Polish nationalists. However, this decision was a more difficult one for Germany. Emperor Frederick hesitated, due to the worry that Polish nationalist sentiment in Russia might spread to Germany and weaken the German Empire. It also went against Germany's aims to incorporate Congress Poland fully into the German Empire after the war. But when little progress in the Siege of Krakow by June of 1907, Frederick approved the strategy. Along with encouraging rebellions in Congress Poland, once Krakow fell after a siege that lasted over a year, Germany started promising the Poles their own independent nation as part of German war aims. As part of these aims, a provisional Polish government was set up in Krakow led by revolutionary Jozef Korzeniowski[7].

[1]Baker Island.
[2]The original name of the town. You may know it in OTL as Kimberley, South Africa.
[3]Bastaards and Koranas were names the Griqua called themselves in OTL.
[4]Son of Stephanus Schoeman, an OTL president of the South African Republic in the 1860s.
[5]The Rensignement Generaux was the intelligence arm of the French police.
[6]Father of Basque nationalism.
[7]Known in OTL as Joseph Conrad.
 
I'd say the US coule possibly get involved depended on what happens in Canada between the French Canadians, Arcadians and the pro-Briitish citizens.

Also, can we have an alternate Karol Wojtyla?
 
The Voortrekers joining the Allies I kinda saw it coming, though I expected them to do it late once Britain was more clearly in trouble.

I am also going to guess Frederick will be more sensible about Poland than Wilhelm II ever was. And thus might still grant them their own Kingdom if the Russians are defeated, with a Hohenzollern (of the Catholic branches) at the helm.

The rebellions in the "Canadas" were a bit more unexpected, but not un-surprising to me. Certainly this gives some in the US the argument in favor of "the need to free the 'forgotten colonies' from British tyranny". The more Catholic - and diverse - US of TTL will certainly be seen much more favorably by the Quebecois, and Catholic Acadians. (I can assume Deseret is having similar issues with the crown? Despite their status as a dominion, it is likely they depend much more on the US than Britain).

Anyways Wilcox, keep up the good work. This is turning quite interesting. And if you have the time to answer to the comments it be great.
 
Finally got around to replying to comments. Long post ahead. :p

If France wins i imagine that they'd want Basque Country but how does Andora play into this with its enemy neighbors
Andorra was annexed into France after the Second Napoleonic War

Speaking of Europe, I really wish hope consider detaching Croatia from Hungary....it just doesn't look right. :(

On the other hand, is Turkey going to join the war? I'd love to see their asses handed to them.....:D
But that's what the kingdom of Hungary looked like. :p Turkey might, but they're probably having enough internal problems of their own right now.

I think they've been Magyarising Croatia for quite some time now, so if it's split off, it'll probably just be Dalmatia and the rest of the coast.

Great update, BTW. It's always good when a TL starts to kick in again.

Agree that it doesn't quite looks right, but it is likely Hungary has been magyarising - at the very least Slavonia - for a while. Perhaps if Illyria joins the winning side, Central Croatia and Dalmatia could be attached to it and form a small kind of Yugoslavia. Or Ragusa expands into Dalmatia and revives ancient Dalmatia, just cause.
If part of Croatia does split off, it will most likely be just the coast. Everything north of the Sava has been pretty much Magyarised by now.

I'm surprised the Italians haven't at least tried to take Corsica yet.

I think the Italians are being a bit overwhelmed.


Keep it up Wilcox this is certainly coming together in quite an epic way. Best war update I've seen in a TL for a while. Certainly the one with broadest scope.

It's not so stragically important to necessitate an immediate conquest, it will be a waste of troops for conquer and occupy.
Yeah, Corsica isn't too strategically important right now. Malta is a much higher priority.

I guess we had all forgotten the Earthquake was bound to happen. Man, Cali is about to face some tough times me thinks. Though they seem to have a decent navy, so once again with Japan and California on their side the coalition is kinda bound to dominate the Pacific. Can't quite no how Corea and France are gona pull off a victory here.
The New Coalition definitely has the advantage in the Pacific, but I don't think California's power projection capability extends all the way to the Asian mainland even with Hawaii and other minor Pacific islands.

It seems the Netherlands are a very strategic position for both sides if they lean with Britian then they already have a push deep into France and Germany and how are Sweden and Denmark leaning cause if they are enemy's Maby well finally see a united skandinavia
Sweden's taken a stance of firm neutrality. Denmark, on the other hand, might get involved since the Baltic could become a naval battleground and they would be in a good strategic position for whichever side they joined.

So far the war in Europe is going well for Germany and France.


Keep it coming, Wilcox!:)
Thanks! :)

Seems the Italians are holding their own in mainland Europe. Awesome :D
Yep.

Wilcox, I see that on the map Baden is painted blue. Wasn't Baden supposed to be a neutral country, or is it essentially an extension of the Alliance?
Baden is neutral toward joining Germany, but its proximity to France and Germany have led the Grand Duke to join the Alliance as a show of friendship to both countries since Baden isn't really expected to do much in the war.

I would expect the Netherlands to stay neutral, they have nothing to gain from doing otherwise. If the side with Britain they are an easy target for Germany - unless they are too busy in the East. And if the side with the Alliance they are also easy pickings for the British Navy.

Denmark is an interesting case, because in TTL it still has some colonies. Togo and Socotra they might be persuaded with the promise of expansion by either side.

Sweden should stay neutral as that is its foreign policy at the time.
All good points.

I love a united scandinavia also it could add a mix into ww2 if it comes around

I think I united Scandinavia has been done quite a few times - although not as part of a 20th century hyper-nationalist ideology.

On the other hand Scandinavian countries fighting each other with such ideologies hasn't. In TTL Denmark has a few colonies and, if I am not mistaken, it retained Schleswig-Holstein since Germany unified over issues with Austria thus it has some industrial potential it didn't have in OTL. So it is likely that Denmark much better off at the turn of the century than it was in OTL.

If Denmark joins the war and ends up in the lossing side of things, and Sweden keeps Norway post-Great War, Denmark could go hyper-nationalist in the aftermath. Later on - as a small local conflict or part of a greater conflict (WWII) - Denmark could try to invade Norway to regain some status and thus provoke Sweden into an armed conflict. It could end up with Denmark victorious or Sweden victorious and it absorbing a chunk of Denmark afterwards.

Whatever the result, if this is a small conflict it could be a precursor to the Second Great War (if there is one), where new tech and strategies are tested, the way the Spanish Civil War was to OTL's WWII.
I haven't decided what will happen with Scandinavia in the near future yet. These are some interesting suggestions. :D

They do have great defensive lines along the alps, and don't have many other commitments beyond defending their home territory. They're losing ground to superior numbers.

Speaking of California joining, how in the hell are the Germans and French supposed to bring in the US against Britain? I could see a propaganda coup against the British coalition, but that's going to take some doing. And to top it off, the US is surrounded, lets not forget that, even if their surrounding potential enemies aren't exactly grade a troops, or have the industrial power to go toe-to-toe with the US, but the US would be fighting something akin to a two front war against the Californians in the west, and the assorted "Canadas" to the north. In addition, this doesn't count possible British and Japanese reinforcements to their North American allies. British troops will be coming, not so sure on the Japanese, but this does give the US the issue of having to either quickly subdue their enemies quickly, or face a long drawn out meatgrinder of a war like OTL WWI.
I hope the latest update helped to answer that question. ;) I have some plans for the US involvement in the war, but I hadn't considered a small Japanese landing. That would be interesting, but I'm not sure how feasible it is or if Japan will attempt it since it probably won't succeed very long if they do make a landing.

The interesting part of this is that the terrain/weather makes both fronts a bitch.

The US unsuccessfully invaded Canada twice, maybe the third time is a charm. But it will still be facing a bottleneck on the Great Lakes front, and unless they take out Montreal/Quebec in the summer, winter will come in hard on them.

Against California they have mountains and dessert. The El Paso territory gives them a good positioning to occupy San Isidro and follow the Gila River towards Yuma. But despite of that you are still looking to a long march through harsh terrain towards a bottleneck. And from Oregon to Sacramento you are looking into marching through mountains into the most populated, and likely best defended, region of California.

So Britain/Japan/Russia can't possibly think of invading the US they can hope for a naval blockade at best. And while the US is on a better position to invade and occupy it is still not at its best when it has to deal with multiple Canadas, California (and possibly Rio Bravo since it is still likely sour from the Chihuahua Intervention, btw what is that war called?) and Britain's Caribbean colonies.

Which once again raises the point, unlike OTL's WWI, I believe this Great War will be decided at sea - on almost all fronts.


I can't see TTL's Great War end up with a sound defeat like OTL. Russia might pull out because of internal strife, the Lega Mediteranea might have to concede to France if Spain falls and Budapest is occupied. But Britain might still be going for the long-haul if it concentrates its efforts at sea, where it still rules. Britain is just as likely to loose a war of attrition as France and Germany are. I think.
Huh, I didn't realize just how much mountains and desert there was between Oregon and the Central Valley. :p I'll need to do some more thinking on how the US invasion of California will go. The naval aspect of the war is definitely very important, especially in the non-European theatres. And the war with Chihuahua is the First Mexican War.

Great update Wilcox. Love the map. I really hope the U.S. gets brought into this war.
Thanks!

Is it just me or does the Netherlands seem like a crab's pincer.

Nice timeline. Liking the Franco-German alliance and hope to see them beat the shit out of New Coalition.
Lol, I hadn't noticed before but it kind of does look like a pincer. :D Thanks for the comment.

I'd say the US coule possibly get involved depended on what happens in Canada between the French Canadians, Arcadians and the pro-Briitish citizens.

Also, can we have an alternate Karol Wojtyla?
Ooh, maybe. I think I know a plausible and interesting setup for him.

So Quebec riots already! Now what if te French starts supplying them and inciting them
Then all hell might break loose. :D

Great, keep it coming!
Thanks!

The Voortrekers joining the Allies I kinda saw it coming, though I expected them to do it late once Britain was more clearly in trouble.

I am also going to guess Frederick will be more sensible about Poland than Wilhelm II ever was. And thus might still grant them their own Kingdom if the Russians are defeated, with a Hohenzollern (of the Catholic branches) at the helm.

The rebellions in the "Canadas" were a bit more unexpected, but not un-surprising to me. Certainly this gives some in the US the argument in favor of "the need to free the 'forgotten colonies' from British tyranny". The more Catholic - and diverse - US of TTL will certainly be seen much more favorably by the Quebecois, and Catholic Acadians. (I can assume Deseret is having similar issues with the crown? Despite their status as a dominion, it is likely they depend much more on the US than Britain).

Anyways Wilcox, keep up the good work. This is turning quite interesting. And if you have the time to answer to the comments it be great.
I was wondering what the Germans would want to do with Poland. A Catholic Hohenzollern as king is a good idea, but would the Polish people and the international community accept that? With a lot fewer big monarchies in Europe having a dynasty rule multiple kingdoms seems like it would ruffle a few feathers in the rest of Europe.

On Canada, Deseret is having some similar issues, but less so since they're relatively remote. But Deseret does have more ties to the US economically and otherwise than the rest of Canada by now.
 
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