Union and Liberty: An American TL

A modern Olympic truce? Niels Bohr playing goalkeeper in a winning Danish football team? TR winning an Olympic bronze medal while President? You, sir, are incredible. Just incredible.

As for the conduct of war itself, while Italy had some early success, I don't see it lasting. They've got France to the east, and more importantly, Germany to the north, and with Europe's biggest military-industrial complex with a country attached just one short Brenner Pass away, the Italians have reasons for concern. I'm also surprised that Germany hasn't invaded Hungary yet; they've got Pressburg right across the river, and Budapest is only two or three days away. The Magyars would be fairly easy to knock out of the war at once. Also, what's Illyria up to? They could be crucial if and when Germany moves against Italy.

EDIT: Oh, and I just wanted to say that if you'd like, I could map out war's progress.
I'll get to Germany's invasion of Hungary in the next update. Now that I'm back in the habit of writing, the updates should be back on schedule.

Is there a hunting contest in the Olympics? If so TR would take the Gold.
Haha, well there's shooting, but I didn't want to have TR be in too many events. :D Although looking more, TR getting a medal in shooting would probably be more plausible than in boxing since it tends more toward older athletes. But that wouldn't be as exciting.

Love it!

Though I do wonder what everyone's rection in Europe was to the Olympic Truce. They can't be just standing around for a few weeks waiting for the events to end so they can begin fighting again. The populations might be distracted by the games, and there might be some "well they beat us at football but will crush their arse in the front" attitudes. The truce might have just stirred more nationalist sentiment than it intended - and will likely be criticized by historians latter on for doing so.

Also, I can't see the truce surviving for every time there is a war. If the Great War - or a subsequent large scale conflict as a result - is still raging in 1910 those games will likely be cancelled I think.
Hmm, I also didn't realize that even the early Olympics took place over weeks or months. Perhaps the truce lasts a week during the opening ceremony and a week during the closing ceremony or something like that. I don't think that Europe's governments would be willing to call a truce for that long.

I do wonder how the building of a stadium in Midtown, and full Olympic Park in Central Park will affect the development of NYC. The City is smaller than in OTL (without Staten Island and Brooklyn). With little immigration and less space this city will be more crowded than OTL.

Anyways brilliant update. Roosevelt will certainly be remembered as a true bad ass in TTL - a good replacement for his Rough Riders of OTL. But I recon the US will still not join the war until his second term. He'll run under a prepare for war campaign, likely against a pacifist Republican Party, and "lets wait and see" Democrats. But that is still two years away.

Very much looking forward to where you take the war.

As a follow up to the development of the Olympics, will we see the rise of a Football World Cup anytime soon? the Olympic games began earlier in TTL so I reckon the World Cup might as well. Not to mention the early rise of telecommunication in TTL will make their popularity quite profitable for some earlier on.
The stadium will lead to an earlier built up midtown, but besides that I'm not really sure. One thing I am considering is having Columbia University stay at its location near OTL Rockefeller Center instead of moving to Morningside Heights in the 1890s.

The Football World Cup will probably begin after the Great War. Right now I'm thinking something along the lines of for whatever reason the Olympics doesn't want to include football, so a worldwide Football organization is founded to organize the first World Cup, and so professionals can compete as well.
 
As for the conduct of war itself, while Italy had some early success, I don't see it lasting. They've got France to the east, and more importantly, Germany to the north, and with Europe's biggest military-industrial complex with a country attached just one short Brenner Pass away, the Italians have reasons for concern. I'm also surprised that Germany hasn't invaded Hungary yet; they've got Pressburg right across the river, and Budapest is only two or three days away. The Magyars would be fairly easy to knock out of the war at once. Also, what's Illyria up to? They could be crucial if and when Germany moves against Italy.

Well things are not so dire for Italy, Germany must divide his attention with Hungary and Russia and the territory one must use for invade his not very favorable to use an euphemism
 
Well things are not so dire for Italy, Germany must divide his attention with Hungary and Russia and the territory one must use for invade his not very favorable to use an euphemism

True, but Germany fought on two fronts IOTL with success. And that was Russia and France/Britain, who were much more formidable than Italy militarily. There's also the fact that Hungary can be knocked out of the war fairly quickly. Granted, Italy's army IOTL had horrendous leadership, but ITTL the Germans also have South Tyrol, which means they don't have to fight their way through the Brenner Pass; this should give them some advantage. I assume the railroad across the pass was built in the same way ITTL? This would make it very easy for Germany to get troops across the Alps.
 
True, but Germany fought on two fronts IOTL with success. And that was Russia and France/Britain, who were much more formidable than Italy militarily. There's also the fact that Hungary can be knocked out of the war fairly quickly. Granted, Italy's army IOTL had horrendous leadership, but ITTL the Germans also have South Tyrol, which means they don't have to fight their way through the Brenner Pass; this should give them some advantage. I assume the railroad across the pass was built in the same way ITTL? This would make it very easy for Germany to get troops across the Alps.

Still is a terrible place for conduct military operations at the offensive, probably second only to the Isonzo, even if Germany don't have to fight till the Brennero Pass...basically is a situation like the OTL Italian invasion of France in WWII, it's a zone where few troops in the right position can stop a larger force...regarding the railrod, if it was build (things that is not sure due to the different relationships between Germany and Italy) by now it will be history
 
Hmm, I also didn't realize that even the early Olympics took place over weeks or months. Perhaps the truce lasts a week during the opening ceremony and a week during the closing ceremony or something like that. I don't think that Europe's governments would be willing to call a truce for that long.

Probably just for the opening ceremony, since the war just started. Can't see everyone putting a week on hold twice for an event across the ocean. Especially not if the olympics have flared up nationalist sentiment.


On the development of NYC: if Columbia and an Olympic Park occupy a good chunk of midtown, there is a good chance the midtown business sector would move up as well - likely occupying the vacant upper west side. or since Brooklyn hasn't been incorporated, it could develop its own true downtown and business sector with skyrises, and thus NYC/Brooklyn become two true twin cities.
 
Have some questions about what is going to happen in the TL:

  1. When will California and America join the war?
  2. Will the Russian Revolution occur just like it did in OTL?
  3. Will there be an Arab Revolt?
  4. Which nations are on France and Germany's side?
  5. Are there other nations against France and Germany?
  6. Will a Lusitanian-like scenario pull America into the war?
  7. Is there going to be the Zimmermann Note, only this time sent to California?
 
Part One-Hundred Two: The Eastern Front
Got the update done finally.

Part One-Hundred Two: The Eastern Front

The Alpine Front:
As in western Europe, little movement was made on the German borders with Italy or Hungary in the first months of the war. In Italy, any quick movements were thwarted by the Alpine terrain and limited to the few mountain passes on the German-Italian border. The Germans were placed on the defensive in Bozen as the Italian forces in the Alps were better supplied. A fierce battle in the Adige valley south of Bozen raged during May. However due to the failed tactics of the German commander, Italy gained the advantage as getting German supplies through the northern Alps was difficult. After Italian forces from Trentino brought artillery up to the cliffs above Vadena and Bronzolo, the Germans were forced to make a hasty retreat into Bozen. By the time of the Olympic truce at the opening ceremony in June, Italy had destroyed the rail connection between Bozen and Meran and had cut off access to Bozen from the west. Bozen would fall to the Italians by the end of June.

While the German offensive to retake Bozen was a top priority on the Alpine front, other offensives were carried out to attempt to bypass the Adige valley. These attacks were focused at Campolongo and Falzarego passes, since besides Bozen, Campolongo was the only major pass along the border below 2000 metres elevation[1]. The Germans who set forth from Bruneck succeeded in capturing the two passes and moved east and south, capturing the city of Ampezzo[2]. However, movement by Italian forces in an attempt to capture Gardena Pass forced much of the German corps to move back west to secure the pass and a unified line between Bozen and Ampezzo. By the Olympic truce, the Germans managed to force the Italians out of Gardena Pass and retain the occupation of Ampezzo.

The early success of the Italians in the Alpine front was surprising to the German general staff in Berlin, given the two country's relative power and army size at the beginning of the war. But in retrospect, the difficulties faced by the German armies are understandable. The Bavarian government had special autonomous privileges within the German Empire that granted it ultimate authority over the Bavarian lands. This autonomy even extended to the Bavarian army and the management of military emplacements within Bavaria[3]. Over the decades, however, the Bavarian government had neglected the southern Alpine region in favor of the area around Munich and the cities in northern Bavaria. The poor maintenance of the Alpine railways strained the German supply lines when the Great War began and the German army in the Alps was poorly trained, and allowed Italy to score an important early victory.


Russia Joins the Coalition:
While the German army suffered a loss of ground in Bavaria, the Germans scored important early successes against Hungary. Germany defeated Hungary in late April to capture the cities of Pressburg and Odenburg on the Hungarian border. German attempts to cross the Danube near Pressburg were stopped by Hungarian forces. However, the army at Ödenburg[4] continued to move east and reached the outskirts of Gyor by June. In northern Hungary, Germany captured Malacka and Szenice and pushed the Hungarians back to the Little Carpathian mountains.

These early successes worried the British and the Italians that Hungary might sign a peace agreement with Berlin and allow the Germans to operate on a single front against Italy or assist France in the west. These concerns were at least somewhat founded. When France declared war on Italy, some members of the Hungarian Diet moved that Hungary should not honor its commitment to the Lega di Mediterraneo and not declare war on France, and after the German advance, support for a quick separate peace agreement with France and Germany grew in the Diet. However, Hungarian chancellor Kalman Tisza refused to accept a peace with Germany. He sent is son Istvan[5] to Saint Petersburg along with the British, Spanish, and Italian foreign ministers to convince the Russians to enter the war on the side of the New Coalition.

In Saint Petersburg, the Tsar was still vacillating on whether Russia would enter the war. While Saint Petersburg had become more involved in Europe over the previous decade, it had not made any diplomatic commitments with any of the other great powers. The three-day Olympic truce between June 9th and 12th provided the breakthrough the Coalition needed to convince him. Just prior to the truce, the British High Seas Fleet had defeated a German fleet in the North Sea that was sailing to aid French ships in the Channel. At the same, word from the Pacific reached the Tsar that France had once again committed its Far Eastern navy to the aid of Corea and that the French and Corean navies had launched an attack on the island of Tsushima. Russia had leased a naval base from Japan on Tsushima in the early 1890s[6], and the Tsar realized that if Corea took the island, the Russian base and Russia's naval presence in east Asia would likely end. These revelations, added to the influence of the four ambassadors from the New Coalition, convinced the Tsar to bring Russia into the Great War on June 16th.

[1] Reschen and Brenner passes are fully within German territory.
[2] Cortina d'Ampezzo. The name was changed after WWI in OTL.
[3] This is about on par with Bavaria's special status in OTL within Germany. Bavaria had its own army that would only go under Prussian command in times of war.
[4] German name for Sopron, Hungary.
[5] Istvan Tisza was prime minister of Hungary from 1903 to 1905 in OTL.
[6] Russia tried to establish a base on Tsushima in 1861 in OTL, but the British intervened. ITTL with closer British-Russian relations and with Russia waiting longer, the base is allowed to be built.
 
I'm conflicted; normally under these circumstances I'd want Germany to win. But under the same circumstances, France to lose. I don't know which side to support :(:p

Equally conflicted.

France and Germany are clearly the agressors here. And I've never been a fan of the über-Gemanys much less über-Frances in ATLs. But we kinda know they will be on the winning side as the US will be in their side. (Unless Wilcox pulls a Kansas City Shuffle and has the US on the loosing side of a Great War - that doesn't happen often).

Britain has been acting like a douche in TTL, Hungary isn't that much better. So you don't want them winning. But Russia has been chill in TTL and it has Alyeska, which I hope stays Russian and not get swallowed by the US.

At the same time if Illyria joins the winning side, we can see a semi-Yugoslavia if it takes the Croat lands from Hungary and some ports from Italy. Ragusa can also take some land and we might see a revitalized Dalmatia (talk about ancient rebirth). I am 100% for this.

My guess is the Ottoman's will go Alliance since Russia its traditional rival and Hungary - still kinda a rival - are on the Coalition.

Keep it up Wilcox.
 
(Unless Wilcox pulls a Kansas City Shuffle and has the US on the loosing side of a Great War - that doesn't happen often).
Given the foreshadowing regarding California, I doubt that the US will actually lose. A pyrrhic victory for the United States could be interesting though.

The war grinds to a standstill in Europe forcing a bitter truce. While the United States makes territorial gains on its front against California, the war leaves the western and northern states ruined. The rebuilding process is complicated by the souring of relations between the minor powers of the Western Hemisphere and economic turmoil.

Yeah, I could see something like that. The United States isn't isolated by its oceans in this timeline.
 
So you don't want them winning. But Russia has been chill in TTL and it has Alyeska, which I hope stays Russian

And I sincerely hope it doesn't! :p (and not just because of the slowly increasing plausibility challenges every year, either) At the very least, I'd be thrilled if they permanently lost Alaska/Alyeska at some point, Revolution or not.......even if it just becomes a new home for the Romanovs and/or their allies and/or is a satellite for a while.

Btw, Wilcox, great update. :D
 
interesting war so far, hopeful that it will be as interesting and well-balanced as has been the calling card of this TL thus far.

Would be interested to learn some more about warfare in this world war, such as the logistics and geographies of relative arms and armed populations of the nations of the Alliance Carolingien and the New Coalition at the start of the war. Starting WWI nearly a decade earlier than OTL would make the fighting better resemble OTL's Russo-Japanese War than the outright trench warfare of our WWI, at the same time as having two central continental powers aided to some degree by mountains in the south, oceans to the west and north, and buffer states in the east, seems to indicate to me, as someone mentioned in an earlier post, that the majority of the fighting might be contesting territories outside the core of Europe. Can this war devolve into trench warfare once the lines are settled on the fronts? It seems less likely to me here because of the geography and because of the Carolingien advantages in industry, population, and location.

My last query here is, what are the victory conditions for each nation at the outset of the war- what are they fighting for? Growing out of imperial ambitions of the Alliance Carolingien, the campaigns of each nation will be centred around the achievements of specific goals, or do we assume that Alliance Carolingien is merely seeking outright domination of the world? The war seems to have been predicated on middling southern European states grouping together to avoid consumption under Franco-Germanic dominance, with Britain likely pulling their strings to some degree.

My handicapping of this war calls for major territorial acquisitions by the Alliance Carolingien at the expense of the Lega del Mediterraneo, while in Asia one has a difficult time seeing Corea emerge victorious in the face of a Russo-Japanese double-teaming with France their only major ally with much power in the region. I would have a difficult time seeing the United States really play much of a role in this war in fact, but again, the major goals of all the parties are not clear to me outside of 'banding-together-to-halt-expansion-of-FrancoGermany,' which, really, i have a hard time seeing the New Coalition doing. Maybe I am overestimating the strength of the Alliance Carolingien at the start of the war, the weakness of the Lega, or the inability of the British to project enough power to invade France or Germany, but getting a sense of the relative military capacities of each nation at the outset might make it clearer.
 
Attached a (really awful, sorry) map with who i saw mentioned to be on which side as of the last post- Blue for Carolingiens, Red for New Coalition, and Orange for Lega- most of the world is neutral grey, which means 'not really mentioned yet' but if we assume the US is with the Carolingiens, they're Blue too. Though not mentioned, it seemed safe to assume the Illyrians were in the Lega?

Not sure which side Turkey is on- guessing the Caorlingien but not sure so left grey. Same for northern europe- would expect Netherlands and Belgium to go Carolingien, but Scandinavians may opt for neutrality. Really it seems like there could be a diplomatic battle for allies in some strategic spots, and ways to play places against each other.

Looking at the map, with the world set up this way, it's hard to see a lot of bright signs for the Lega, even with the British and Russians backing them.

UandL WWI.png
 
Attached a (really awful, sorry) map with who i saw mentioned to be on which side as of the last post- Blue for Carolingiens, Red for New Coalition, and Orange for Lega- most of the world is neutral grey, which means 'not really mentioned yet' but if we assume the US is with the Carolingiens, they're Blue too. Though not mentioned, it seemed safe to assume the Illyrians were in the Lega?

Not sure which side Turkey is on- guessing the Caorlingien but not sure so left grey. Same for northern europe- would expect Netherlands and Belgium to go Carolingien, but Scandinavians may opt for neutrality. Really it seems like there could be a diplomatic battle for allies in some strategic spots, and ways to play places against each other.

Looking at the map, with the world set up this way, it's hard to see a lot of bright signs for the Lega, even with the British and Russians backing them.

Nice map, Koxinga. The Corean-Japanese conflict will be very interesting to watch - with France supporting the Coreans, and Russia backing the Japanese, we can expect a lot of action on that front. Did the British have any significant naval assets in the area? And what about China? Russia has little capacity for an amphibious assault, so if they want to get to Corea, they'll have to get through China.

They could try to barter passage diplomatically, which is a good strategy. If Russia is successful in gaining passage through China diplomatically, then Corea will probably launch a pre-emptive attack into Manchuria in order to meet the Russians halfway rather than fight them at the Corean-Chinese border. That attack would bring China into the war on the Coalition side - which is why China would never grant Russia permission to cross their territory in a million years, unless they were under serious diplomatic pressure.

On the other hand, a Russian attack on China just seems like creating more trouble than its worth. It's a tricky situation.

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
Top