Winston Smith
Banned
Does the German Empire of TTL use the Red-White-Black Banner or the Black-Red-Gold one?
Union and Liberty: An American TL
- Thread starter wilcoxchar
- Start date
Excellent update!
Would Russia really join the British side though? It would seem to me that due to its isolationist nature ITTL, Russia would prefer to wait to see which side clearly looked like the victorious side before declaring war.
Besides, I was hoping to see Russian New Caledonia.
In the past decade Russia has been moving closer to European affairs, especially after the Turkish War. They're wary of continued German expansion in Europe and after some diplomatic maneuvering from London once the war started the Tsar was convinced to join the British side. And as jycee said, by entering the war Russia hopes to gain a warm-water port from Korea.
Somewhat yes, but France and Germany are the aggressors against most of Europe now, and are fighting on several fronts.
Possibly. They're still recovering from the Turkish War though, so the Sultan will be doing his best to stay neutral.
It could, but I also have some other events planned for South America.
I was thinking the Coalition for Britain et. al., but not sure what the Franco-Germany alliance should be called.
As Ares said, Germany is a unitary state, with the exceptions of Bavaria and Hanover being given a special autonomous status.
The Lega del Mediterraneo will most likely survive, since it's a counterweight to French power.
Germany uses the red-white-black banner.
Next update will be done tonight or tomorrow.
Winston Smith
Banned
I've realised that if Poland ever regains independence ITTL, it will either be as a Russian puppet Kingdom or as a German one, not as a fully independent republic. The unitary nature of Germany saddens me, although at least ITTL it a parliamentary constitutional monarchy rather then the OTL semi-absolute one.
You could have it that it gains independence as a Russian puppet and then Russia implodes. Nevertheless I doubt Germany will give any of its territory, it is too powerful for it to do so. However it would be a smaller and landlocked country.
At the same time, there is a chance that Germany will implode as well. Even if TTL's Germany is a parliamentary quasi-democracy it is still not a "free" power when compared to the more liberal France and Italy that border it. It also has more minorities to deal with, and a radical republican Austria within its territory. In TTL where communication is ahead of OTL social chaos might still bring enough instability to free the Polish parts of Germany.
We will see what the Great War and the years that follow can offer.
If USA helped California with independence, why would they become enemies?
Religious intolerance by the Californians toward their own population, the US wants San Francisco Bay, Anglophone areas of California are willing to secede from the nation, there are plenty of reasons that I can see. Main one would have to be San Francisco though. You're talking about one of the largest bays on the West Coast, which makes it a great jumping off point for heading west into the Pacific. Puget Sound, while not bad, isn't exactly the best place to head out from to head into the Pacific.
This may be off-topic, but I was wondering how you apportion the electoral votes, and congressional seats, for each state, especially the alternate ones, every election cycle. Do you do it randomly? Or is there a method, like the Hungtington-Hill method?
I update the populations of each state at each census then use the Huntington-Hill method for apportioning the votes. I wrote a simple python program that does it so I don't have to do it by hand.
This pretty much sums it up. It narrows down to Californian insecurities and fears of US expansion. Wilcox has pointed out that California tends to swing back and forth in policies regarding the US, immigration, expansion, the mormons, religious tolerance, etc. It is kinda schizophrenic and unfortunately - for California - the wrong policies were in place when the Great War began.
It is likely California also underwent a few coups and constitutions. I suggest three:
One under the bear flag, and the initial government established by Fremont and the US army when they first propped up the independent California. It had a constitution based on the US one, established the internal divisions, admitted the Mormons into Espejo. And was essentially set up for California to be annexed by the US. However it was likely short lived.
The Second Republic was probably established during the Polk administration, when Californio elittes outside the San Francisco Bay realized California was likely next in the annexation list after Texas and Britain was at war with the US. Not wanting to loose power a rag tag team of Southern ranchers (probably under the leadership of Andres & Pio Pico, who in OTL tried to establish the State of Southern California). Pico likely allied with a handful of anglo-California entrepreneurs, who would have also liked the freedom of an independent California, and back-up by Britain who was at war with US over Oregon. It was a successful short coup and no-one really raised a fuss, all the insurgents wanted was a California that worked outside US influence and that could trade freely with whomever it pleases. Of course the US remained its largest trade partner. For the next 30 or so years California prospered steadily. This Second Republic was likely the most democratic (even if it was country club democracy), and free of the three. And will later be ideally romanticized.
But by the 1870s California had changed dramatically; The US National War and gold rush had brought an immigrant influx and tremendous population boom. Furthermore California had swallowed more than it could handle when it annexed Sonora. Despite California's wealth lawlessness was rampant, and progress could not keep up with inflation brought in by the economic boom. Instability provoked insecurities and before the country could implode the military seized power. A third republic was established. The new republic was not that different in writing but in practice most of the power is now in the hands of the military, and the office of the President. So California swung in policy at the President's whim. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad. The reason why this third Republic has survived is stability. California's population has seen what instability did to Mexico, and fears falling apart and being swallowed by the US in pieces. So they are willing to favor almost anything as long as they think it brings stability and strength to the state. Unfortunately, the wrong policy was in place at the wrong time.
As time goes on, I can really see Pre-Great War California being romanticized through both film and literature. It's a perfect setting and more 'Old West' than the OTL American frontier. Even if the government has become decrepit and corrupt, that won't stop people from forming an idealized image of it (see the Confederacy). It'll really be interesting to see how California develops from here and what kind of image it maintains.
With any luck, California will be able to hold onto San Francisco. Losing the city would be a massive blow in every respect. I can see them maintaining control if they give the US free port access and some bases down there. Maybe the US constructs a facility on a little known island called Alcatraz...
Part One Hundred One: War and Peace
Update's done!
Part One Hundred One: War and Peace
First Moves of Great War: The beginning of the Great War saw the test of the European naval arms race that had been building up for the past two decades, as much of the combat between the Alliance Carolingien[1] and the New Coalition took place at sea. While the British had naval forces scattered all across the globe, the French and German fleets were concentrated in the North Sea, English Channel, and the Mediterranean. In the North Sea, the Royal Navy sought to prevent the German fleet in the North Sea from joining the French in the Channel with a combine attack. The first naval action of the Great War was the Battle of Cotentin off the coast of Normandy. The Manche Fleet had been sailing west from Le Havre and was intercepted by the British north of the Cotentin Peninsula on April 10, 1906. The French ships defeated the smaller British fleet, sinking two destroyers and damaging four other ships in the British fleet. Later in April, the Manche Fleet set up a blockade around the Channel Islands, which fell in the next two months. The German navy launched a similar invasion of Heligoland in June after chasing away the small fleet based on the island.
On land, the fighting was for the most part stalled due to most of the fronts being mountainous. Only a few breakthroughs were made in Europe during the first months of the war. Before the French could set up sufficient defenses, Italy made a successful push across the Var River and capture Canges-sur-Mer, Antibes, Carros, and Vence. The French stalled the Italian advance after a few days, and set up defensive positions in the hills east of Cannes and north of Vence. The French had more success against Italy in Savoy and on the African front. French forces defeated Italy at the battle of Choisy in late April and shelled Annecy for a week before taking the city on May 8, 1906. Chambery was surrounded on the north and west by mid-May, but the difficult terrain in those directions prevented French troops from capturing both major cities in Savoy. In Africa, the French advance began weeks after the fighting in Europe as word of the conflict reached the isolated towns. Henri de Gaulle[2], general of the French army in Algeria, sent the army east from Bone and reached Jendouba by the end of May. The French Algerian fleet shelled Bizerte and launched an attack on Tabarka, but refrained from attacking Tunis. A French expedition from Ghadames was sent north through the desert at the beginning of May to make a surprise attack on Tripoli, but the hundred mile trek through the desert exhausted the men by the time they reached Nalut.
The Olympic Truce: The outbreak of the Great War in Europe had some impact in the United States prior to the American entry into the war. Three years before the war, the International Olympic Committee had selected New York to be the first city in the United States and the first city outside Europe to host the Olympics[3]. When the Great War started though, the Olympics Committee considered cancelling the 1906 games because they did not want the games to occur during a time of war and the committee was unsure of whether the United States would take a side on the war before the games. However, a letter by President Roosevelt to the committee convinced the members that the games should go on as planned. In Theodore Roosevelt's words, "these games represent the ideal of peace even in a time of war. To let the games lapse now would be to let the spirit of the ancient games lapse. Are we not civilized nations? Can we not carry forward the ekecheima of the ancient games into the modern and revive the Olympics truce in earnest? I beseech this committee that as civilized peoples, we shall continue to hold these games in the spirit of peace."[4] The committee, convinced by Roosevelt's words and the practical consideration that many of the athletes had already made the long journey to New York, the games went ahead in June.
At the opening ceremony, the committee honored Roosevelt's suggestion to revive the Olympic truce, and the ceremony began with President Roosevelt himself making what is now the traditional Olympic oath to "take part in the Olympic Games in a spirit of chivalry, for the honour of our country, and for the glory of sport."[5] The Olympic committee went so far as to allow Roosevelt to compete in the rowing and boxing events. The President did well in both events. Roosevelt even received a bronze medal in heavyweight boxing, defeating one opponent in the first round[6]. Other highlights of the 1906 Olympics were in the swimming events. Native Hawaiian Don Kahanamoku won California's only Olympic medals after getting gold in the 100 metre freestyle and bronze in the 400 metre freestyle[7]. In football, there were a record eight teams competing. The Danish team defeated Acadia in the quarterfinal and Hungary in the semifinal to advance to the final match against England. The Danes, with the Bohr brothers playing goalkeeper and forward[8], won the match 3 to 1. Most of the events took place in Central Park, with the football matches taking place at the southwest end near Merchants Gate. The stadium built there for the 1906 Olympics would later host the football club New York Athletic.
[1] The name Alliance Carolignien is a call back to Charlemagne as a common ancestry of both France and Germany.
[2] Henri is Charles de Gaulle's father. In OTL Henri served in the Franco-Prussian War, TTL he served in the Second Napoleonic War.
[3] New York beat out other cities in North America including Halifx, Havana, Chicago, and Yerba Buena. The previous Olympic hosts were Paris in 1894, Rome in 1898, and Madrid in 1902.
[4] This is original. The ekecheima is the ancient Greek term for the Olympic truce.
[5] This is taken from the OTL first version of the Olympic Oath at the 1920 games.
[6] Roosevelt would be 48, the same age as George Foreman when he retired and three years older than when Foreman became the oldest heavyweight champion. I figure with Roosevelt keeping as active as he did (boxing regularly even while president in OTL), and with few enough competitors in the early olympics, it's plausible Roosevelt could get bronze.
[7] OTL Duke Kahanamoku, a Hawaiian swimmer and medal-winning Olympian.
[8]The Bohr brothers being Niels and Harald. Harald played for the Danish national team at the 1908 Olympics in OTL and both played at their university club.
Part One Hundred One: War and Peace
First Moves of Great War: The beginning of the Great War saw the test of the European naval arms race that had been building up for the past two decades, as much of the combat between the Alliance Carolingien[1] and the New Coalition took place at sea. While the British had naval forces scattered all across the globe, the French and German fleets were concentrated in the North Sea, English Channel, and the Mediterranean. In the North Sea, the Royal Navy sought to prevent the German fleet in the North Sea from joining the French in the Channel with a combine attack. The first naval action of the Great War was the Battle of Cotentin off the coast of Normandy. The Manche Fleet had been sailing west from Le Havre and was intercepted by the British north of the Cotentin Peninsula on April 10, 1906. The French ships defeated the smaller British fleet, sinking two destroyers and damaging four other ships in the British fleet. Later in April, the Manche Fleet set up a blockade around the Channel Islands, which fell in the next two months. The German navy launched a similar invasion of Heligoland in June after chasing away the small fleet based on the island.
On land, the fighting was for the most part stalled due to most of the fronts being mountainous. Only a few breakthroughs were made in Europe during the first months of the war. Before the French could set up sufficient defenses, Italy made a successful push across the Var River and capture Canges-sur-Mer, Antibes, Carros, and Vence. The French stalled the Italian advance after a few days, and set up defensive positions in the hills east of Cannes and north of Vence. The French had more success against Italy in Savoy and on the African front. French forces defeated Italy at the battle of Choisy in late April and shelled Annecy for a week before taking the city on May 8, 1906. Chambery was surrounded on the north and west by mid-May, but the difficult terrain in those directions prevented French troops from capturing both major cities in Savoy. In Africa, the French advance began weeks after the fighting in Europe as word of the conflict reached the isolated towns. Henri de Gaulle[2], general of the French army in Algeria, sent the army east from Bone and reached Jendouba by the end of May. The French Algerian fleet shelled Bizerte and launched an attack on Tabarka, but refrained from attacking Tunis. A French expedition from Ghadames was sent north through the desert at the beginning of May to make a surprise attack on Tripoli, but the hundred mile trek through the desert exhausted the men by the time they reached Nalut.
The Olympic Truce: The outbreak of the Great War in Europe had some impact in the United States prior to the American entry into the war. Three years before the war, the International Olympic Committee had selected New York to be the first city in the United States and the first city outside Europe to host the Olympics[3]. When the Great War started though, the Olympics Committee considered cancelling the 1906 games because they did not want the games to occur during a time of war and the committee was unsure of whether the United States would take a side on the war before the games. However, a letter by President Roosevelt to the committee convinced the members that the games should go on as planned. In Theodore Roosevelt's words, "these games represent the ideal of peace even in a time of war. To let the games lapse now would be to let the spirit of the ancient games lapse. Are we not civilized nations? Can we not carry forward the ekecheima of the ancient games into the modern and revive the Olympics truce in earnest? I beseech this committee that as civilized peoples, we shall continue to hold these games in the spirit of peace."[4] The committee, convinced by Roosevelt's words and the practical consideration that many of the athletes had already made the long journey to New York, the games went ahead in June.
At the opening ceremony, the committee honored Roosevelt's suggestion to revive the Olympic truce, and the ceremony began with President Roosevelt himself making what is now the traditional Olympic oath to "take part in the Olympic Games in a spirit of chivalry, for the honour of our country, and for the glory of sport."[5] The Olympic committee went so far as to allow Roosevelt to compete in the rowing and boxing events. The President did well in both events. Roosevelt even received a bronze medal in heavyweight boxing, defeating one opponent in the first round[6]. Other highlights of the 1906 Olympics were in the swimming events. Native Hawaiian Don Kahanamoku won California's only Olympic medals after getting gold in the 100 metre freestyle and bronze in the 400 metre freestyle[7]. In football, there were a record eight teams competing. The Danish team defeated Acadia in the quarterfinal and Hungary in the semifinal to advance to the final match against England. The Danes, with the Bohr brothers playing goalkeeper and forward[8], won the match 3 to 1. Most of the events took place in Central Park, with the football matches taking place at the southwest end near Merchants Gate. The stadium built there for the 1906 Olympics would later host the football club New York Athletic.
[1] The name Alliance Carolignien is a call back to Charlemagne as a common ancestry of both France and Germany.
[2] Henri is Charles de Gaulle's father. In OTL Henri served in the Franco-Prussian War, TTL he served in the Second Napoleonic War.
[3] New York beat out other cities in North America including Halifx, Havana, Chicago, and Yerba Buena. The previous Olympic hosts were Paris in 1894, Rome in 1898, and Madrid in 1902.
[4] This is original. The ekecheima is the ancient Greek term for the Olympic truce.
[5] This is taken from the OTL first version of the Olympic Oath at the 1920 games.
[6] Roosevelt would be 48, the same age as George Foreman when he retired and three years older than when Foreman became the oldest heavyweight champion. I figure with Roosevelt keeping as active as he did (boxing regularly even while president in OTL), and with few enough competitors in the early olympics, it's plausible Roosevelt could get bronze.
[7] OTL Duke Kahanamoku, a Hawaiian swimmer and medal-winning Olympian.
[8]The Bohr brothers being Niels and Harald. Harald played for the Danish national team at the 1908 Olympics in OTL and both played at their university club.
A modern Olympic truce? Niels Bohr playing goalkeeper in a winning Danish football team? TR winning an Olympic bronze medal while President? You, sir, are incredible. Just incredible.
As for the conduct of war itself, while Italy had some early success, I don't see it lasting. They've got France to the east, and more importantly, Germany to the north, and with Europe's biggest military-industrial complex with a country attached just one short Brenner Pass away, the Italians have reasons for concern. I'm also surprised that Germany hasn't invaded Hungary yet; they've got Pressburg right across the river, and Budapest is only two or three days away. The Magyars would be fairly easy to knock out of the war at once. Also, what's Illyria up to? They could be crucial if and when Germany moves against Italy.
EDIT: Oh, and I just wanted to say that if you'd like, I could map out war's progress.
As for the conduct of war itself, while Italy had some early success, I don't see it lasting. They've got France to the east, and more importantly, Germany to the north, and with Europe's biggest military-industrial complex with a country attached just one short Brenner Pass away, the Italians have reasons for concern. I'm also surprised that Germany hasn't invaded Hungary yet; they've got Pressburg right across the river, and Budapest is only two or three days away. The Magyars would be fairly easy to knock out of the war at once. Also, what's Illyria up to? They could be crucial if and when Germany moves against Italy.
EDIT: Oh, and I just wanted to say that if you'd like, I could map out war's progress.
Classic TR. This is how I imagine him.
TR shot bigfoot. Your argument is invalid.
TR shot bigfoot. Your argument is invalid.
Classic TR. This is how I imagine him.
TR shot bigfoot. Your argument is invalid.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good one.
Good update. I was wondering when will Ameica and California join the war. And who else will be involved?
Classic TR. This is how I imagine him.
TR shot bigfoot. Your argument is invalid.
There was TL about that, used the picture and all, on this site. Napoleon53 made that I believe.
Love it!
Though I do wonder what everyone's rection in Europe was to the Olympic Truce. They can't be just standing around for a few weeks waiting for the events to end so they can begin fighting again. The populations might be distracted by the games, and there might be some "well they beat us at football but will crush their arse in the front" attitudes. The truce might have just stirred more nationalist sentiment than it intended - and will likely be criticized by historians latter on for doing so.
Also, I can't see the truce surviving for every time there is a war. If the Great War - or a subsequent large scale conflict as a result - is still raging in 1910 those games will likely be cancelled I think.
I do wonder how the building of a stadium in Midtown, and full Olympic Park in Central Park will affect the development of NYC. The City is smaller than in OTL (without Staten Island and Brooklyn). With little immigration and less space this city will be more crowded than OTL.
Anyways brilliant update. Roosevelt will certainly be remembered as a true bad ass in TTL - a good replacement for his Rough Riders of OTL. But I recon the US will still not join the war until his second term. He'll run under a prepare for war campaign, likely against a pacifist Republican Party, and "lets wait and see" Democrats. But that is still two years away.
Very much looking forward to where you take the war.
As a follow up to the development of the Olympics, will we see the rise of a Football World Cup anytime soon? the Olympic games began earlier in TTL so I reckon the World Cup might as well. Not to mention the early rise of telecommunication in TTL will make their popularity quite profitable for some earlier on.
Though I do wonder what everyone's rection in Europe was to the Olympic Truce. They can't be just standing around for a few weeks waiting for the events to end so they can begin fighting again. The populations might be distracted by the games, and there might be some "well they beat us at football but will crush their arse in the front" attitudes. The truce might have just stirred more nationalist sentiment than it intended - and will likely be criticized by historians latter on for doing so.
Also, I can't see the truce surviving for every time there is a war. If the Great War - or a subsequent large scale conflict as a result - is still raging in 1910 those games will likely be cancelled I think.
I do wonder how the building of a stadium in Midtown, and full Olympic Park in Central Park will affect the development of NYC. The City is smaller than in OTL (without Staten Island and Brooklyn). With little immigration and less space this city will be more crowded than OTL.
Anyways brilliant update. Roosevelt will certainly be remembered as a true bad ass in TTL - a good replacement for his Rough Riders of OTL. But I recon the US will still not join the war until his second term. He'll run under a prepare for war campaign, likely against a pacifist Republican Party, and "lets wait and see" Democrats. But that is still two years away.
Very much looking forward to where you take the war.
As a follow up to the development of the Olympics, will we see the rise of a Football World Cup anytime soon? the Olympic games began earlier in TTL so I reckon the World Cup might as well. Not to mention the early rise of telecommunication in TTL will make their popularity quite profitable for some earlier on.