I go to American in DC actually. I'm from Boulder though, and just never bothered updating my location since I'm going back after I graduate.
Union and Liberty: An American TL
- Thread starter wilcoxchar
- Start date
How has Rockefeller's career panned out ITTL? I can't imagine anything stopping him from gaining wealth.
I'm hoping he becomes an impressionist painter, moves to France, meets Vincent van Gogh, moves in with him for a short time, and eventually prompts him to cut his ear off while at a brothel.
Rockefeller was one of the few men from that era who could give Roosevelt a run for his money, badassery-wise. This TL has been sufficiently righteous to give me faith that something good will come of it
Well, I was making a joke; since Gauguin is now an American businessman (although quite different from Rockefeller), I thought it'd be fun for them to switch places.
I think Wilcox was trying to select a different set of tycoons than OTL. Some appear to be present in both TLs; Vanderbilt was mentioned in one of the Undisclosed Adventures of Theodore Roosevelt Stories but so far I don't think there has been mentioned of Rockefeller.
Amongst the mentioned ones have been Gauging, who in TTL runs a chain of department stores, Sam Clemens (Mark Twain), whose investment in steamships seam to have paid off in TTL, as well as Nicolai Tesla (and I guess anyone who invested in AC) who without Edison to compete with didn't go insane.
Interestingly a few artists in TTL have become either businessmen or politicians (as was the case for Walt Whitman); I wonder if there has been any of the opposite case politicians/businessmen of OTL who became artists/writers in TTL?
Which brings me to a question for Wilcox: How is art/architecture evolving in TTL? Does early 20th century art differ from OTL? I assume modernism (in most of its forms) will happen regardless, though the movements might be associated and named differently than in OTL.
I'm kinda worried that in TTL Roosevelt even with the Great War happening during his presidency might not have the same aura surrounding his persona as in OTL. In OTL Roosevelt was already a celebrity before his Presidency, and his career after his Presidency was still quite awesome. Including his bid under the bull-moose party, the assassination attempt, etc. In TTL he seems to be a more low key figure so far; there was no Spanish American War for him to lead a regiment of volunteers, and he became President via a regular election, not the assassination of the previous president. The "unique" thing is that he was elected as a third party member (but it seems that multiparty elections will be the norm in TTL).
In contrast John C. Fremont in TTL, is likely to rise as the ultimate symbol of bad-assery: a bastard child, who fought in the Mexican American War, the Oregon War, became President, saved the Union, ended slavery, and oversaw reconstruction, when he had the chance of running for a third term he opted not to and instead decided to go fight more Californios or something.
Sam Houston also has a pretty big career in TTL, and ultimately his assassination sparked the National War. TR has some big shoes to fill in TTL when it comes to memorable Presidents in TTL.
good call here mate, ttl Frémont would undoubtedly find the same kind of adulation from later generations as our Roosevelt has done. Looking at his record as articulated by Wilcoxchar he is indeed duly badass. And it calls into question some of the exultation leveled upon Roosevelt (who we [can] only know as a badass), in comparison to this Frémont figure about whom we have so much alt-badass information.
Maybe it's Frémont's badass who belongs in airships fighting prenazis or whatever, instead of Teddy's.
also, jycee, good call also on the begging the obvious question- who are the Californio Badasses? We must assume that as we enter the (what, second decade of the!?) twentieth century, this independent California nation can be seen to come into its own in many respects, and there surely must be many Californo versions of the Frémonts, Roosevelts, and Rockefellers to challenge and excite (even ally, business-wise?) with their american counterparts?
Let us not forget the massive influx of immigration, not merely from the Western Pacific (which as likely been itself impressive, from an improved Corea to a still-vibrant China and Japan) to Europe, where Wilcox has stated settlers from Italy, Ireland, and (postulating here) the Balkans have ended up, hoping to start anew.
Famous barons such as Astor or Giannini, who found their wealth in the Pacific, will as likely have found a haven in California to make their monopolistic contributions as in our tl.
I've thought about having businessmen and politicians become artists and such, but that's more difficult to justify than the other way around.Most of the modern art movements will still happen, though I'm thinking of having styles like fauvism and futurism become more popular as symbols of the modern art movement in TTL. The Great War will have a big impact on the arts, so I'll talk about it then.
It's true that TR does have some big badass shoes to fill, especially from Fremont. But he will be worthy of the term. I think I'll revive the Great Men series thing for him, since that kind of went nowhere for a while.
TTL's US does have a tendency to elect presidential badasses, it seems.
Hmm, interesting. California would probably favor Southern European immigrants in rising through society. Astor's a bit too early to have much changed in the TL though his kids and grandkids will likely continue the family fortune. I hadn't known about Giannini, but he sounds like a good candidate for a prominent Californio businessman.
Part Ninety-Eight: African-Americans in the Nineteenth Century
Update's done!
Part Ninety-Eight: African-Americans in the Nineteenth Century
Black and White Relations:
The aftermath of the National War left a lot of land in the former Confederacy vacant. After many rich planters had fled the United States after the war to Veracruz, Brazil, and other countries in Ibero-America, the land they had owned was bought up by the federal government during the military government of the Confederate states. The Fremont administration passed the Freedmen Land Act in 1871, which authorized the sale of these Reclaimed Lands to blacks who had been freed from slavery[1]. Over the next five years, the land, mostly in Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and South Carolina, was sold to blacks. For a short time the newly landed blacks prospered on the Reclaimed Land. However, many white landowners in the South felt threatened by the prosperity of the freedmen. Democratic governments in rural counties of the Deep South passed laws restricting black ownership of land, and neighboring landowners often used threats and violence to force freedmen to sell their plots.
While during the Fremont and Lee administrations, many of the forced removals of blacks from their lands were blocked by Republican state courts, the protection of freedmen land ownership was neglected after the election of Winfield Scott Hancock onward. The Hancock administration ignored many cases of freedmen being forced off their land. Because of this, some freedmen left the rural parts of the Southern states for cities, especially the new manufacturing centers along the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. The urbanization of Southern black society was expanded by the infestation of the boll weevil in the South in the late 19th century and the Silver Depression[2]. By the end of the century, significant black communities arose in cities like Memphis, New Orleans, Cairo, and Birmingham.
During the Silver Depression, the increase in black communities in many of these cities worsened race relations among the poorer populations of the cities, especially along the Mississippi River. The first notable incident of racial violence in the cities was in Memphis, Chickasaw in 1889. When the Vanderbilt Steamship company hired blacks to run steamboats across the river, a group of whites massed at the Memphis dockyards and burned two of the riverboats at the docks. The situation escalated into a riot and fighting between whites and blacks last for two days in the blocks surrounding the Chickasaw State Capitol[3]. There were further large race riots in Richmond in 1895, Memphis in 1902, and Montgomery in 1905.
Blacks in Politics and Culture:
While the decades after the National War saw hardship for some blacks in the South, the era also saw a flourishing of black participation in culture and politics. During the late 19th century, several African-Americans were elected to political office at the state level as well as in Congress. The first black to be elected to the House of Representative and the Senate was Hiram Rhodes of Mississippi. Rhodes served as Congressman from 1871 to 1875 and was elected to the Senate for one term in 1874. Later, Benjamin William Arnett of Ohio became the first black man to represent Congress from a northern state when he was elected as a Democrat to the House in 1882. Arnett forged a friendship with future president William McKinley who helped Arnett gain influence. Another notable black politician of the late 19th century was Antonio Maceo Grajales, who was elected Representative and Senator from Cuba during the turn of the century.
Around the turn of the 20th century, African-American culture also experienced a rise in popularity and influence. Matanzas and New Orleans already had a thriving African cultural legacy as centers of black culture. The revival and spread of the cabildos[4] in Matanzas and other cities in Cuba in the late 19th century helped spread Afro-Cuban musical styles such as the son, changui, rumba, and comparsa. As Cuba became a popular destination for travelers from the Northeast, cabildos soon opened up in New York, Brooklyn, and other cities. At the same time, freedmen and creoles in New Orleans and other cities spread the influence of mainland African music around the country, particularly Yazoo blues[5] and ragtime. In Southern coastal cities such as Jacksonville and Pensacola, frequently these two styles mixed and led to the development of clave music[6], which became widely popular in the early 20th century. One of the most influential clave artists was Ferdinand Morton[7], who often took the rhythms of Cuban clave music and used it in his pieces.
African-Americans around the turn of the century also started gaining notoriety in literary fields as well as music. The establishment of black focused universities in the South after the National War helped educate newly freed slaves. Many of these, such as Mississippi Delta University in Vicksburg and Attucks University in Birmingham, were initially agricultural schools to teach freedmen how to better manage their new lands. However, they soon developed into full-fledged African-American institutions. One of the alumni of Attucks University was Scott Joplin, who later became a wealthy landowner and a successful North Carolina businessman. These universities produced a number of African-American writers who catalogued the experience of freedmen and others' experiences before and after the National War. Along with these non-fiction works, African-American poetry also flourished. Blacks in the South often wrote poems based on working chants from slavery or of life on the Mississippi River. African-American poetry at this time was also not just in English. Juan Gualberto Gomez[8] wrote poetry in both Spanish and English in Cuba, while Alphonse Picou wrote in French and a local Creole dialect in New Orleans.
[1] Based on the abandoned 40 Acres and a Mule idea.
[2] History keeps stealing what I think are original ideas. This is essentially what led to the Great Migration in the 1930s and 1940s in OTL.
[3] The Chickasaw State Capitol is located at the OTL Shelby County Courthouse, and was built after the Great Fire of 1871 burned down the courthouse.
[4] Cabildos were social clubs for Africans of different cultural groups in Cuba in the 18th century, but had declined by the early 19th century. ITTL the term is revived as music clubs. One of the oldest jazz clubs in New York City ITTL is the Cabildo Lucumi, named after the Spanish term for the Yoruba people.
[5] TTL's term for Delta blues.
[6] Clave is the term for jazz music, which ITTL has a bigger and earlier Latin influence.
[7] You may know him by his OTL nickname, Jelly Roll Morton.
[8] Gomez was an OTL politician and journalist who was a leader during Cuba's independence fight and spoke out against American imperialism in Cuba during the early 1900s.
Part Ninety-Eight: African-Americans in the Nineteenth Century
Black and White Relations:
The aftermath of the National War left a lot of land in the former Confederacy vacant. After many rich planters had fled the United States after the war to Veracruz, Brazil, and other countries in Ibero-America, the land they had owned was bought up by the federal government during the military government of the Confederate states. The Fremont administration passed the Freedmen Land Act in 1871, which authorized the sale of these Reclaimed Lands to blacks who had been freed from slavery[1]. Over the next five years, the land, mostly in Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and South Carolina, was sold to blacks. For a short time the newly landed blacks prospered on the Reclaimed Land. However, many white landowners in the South felt threatened by the prosperity of the freedmen. Democratic governments in rural counties of the Deep South passed laws restricting black ownership of land, and neighboring landowners often used threats and violence to force freedmen to sell their plots.
While during the Fremont and Lee administrations, many of the forced removals of blacks from their lands were blocked by Republican state courts, the protection of freedmen land ownership was neglected after the election of Winfield Scott Hancock onward. The Hancock administration ignored many cases of freedmen being forced off their land. Because of this, some freedmen left the rural parts of the Southern states for cities, especially the new manufacturing centers along the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. The urbanization of Southern black society was expanded by the infestation of the boll weevil in the South in the late 19th century and the Silver Depression[2]. By the end of the century, significant black communities arose in cities like Memphis, New Orleans, Cairo, and Birmingham.
During the Silver Depression, the increase in black communities in many of these cities worsened race relations among the poorer populations of the cities, especially along the Mississippi River. The first notable incident of racial violence in the cities was in Memphis, Chickasaw in 1889. When the Vanderbilt Steamship company hired blacks to run steamboats across the river, a group of whites massed at the Memphis dockyards and burned two of the riverboats at the docks. The situation escalated into a riot and fighting between whites and blacks last for two days in the blocks surrounding the Chickasaw State Capitol[3]. There were further large race riots in Richmond in 1895, Memphis in 1902, and Montgomery in 1905.
Blacks in Politics and Culture:
While the decades after the National War saw hardship for some blacks in the South, the era also saw a flourishing of black participation in culture and politics. During the late 19th century, several African-Americans were elected to political office at the state level as well as in Congress. The first black to be elected to the House of Representative and the Senate was Hiram Rhodes of Mississippi. Rhodes served as Congressman from 1871 to 1875 and was elected to the Senate for one term in 1874. Later, Benjamin William Arnett of Ohio became the first black man to represent Congress from a northern state when he was elected as a Democrat to the House in 1882. Arnett forged a friendship with future president William McKinley who helped Arnett gain influence. Another notable black politician of the late 19th century was Antonio Maceo Grajales, who was elected Representative and Senator from Cuba during the turn of the century.
Around the turn of the 20th century, African-American culture also experienced a rise in popularity and influence. Matanzas and New Orleans already had a thriving African cultural legacy as centers of black culture. The revival and spread of the cabildos[4] in Matanzas and other cities in Cuba in the late 19th century helped spread Afro-Cuban musical styles such as the son, changui, rumba, and comparsa. As Cuba became a popular destination for travelers from the Northeast, cabildos soon opened up in New York, Brooklyn, and other cities. At the same time, freedmen and creoles in New Orleans and other cities spread the influence of mainland African music around the country, particularly Yazoo blues[5] and ragtime. In Southern coastal cities such as Jacksonville and Pensacola, frequently these two styles mixed and led to the development of clave music[6], which became widely popular in the early 20th century. One of the most influential clave artists was Ferdinand Morton[7], who often took the rhythms of Cuban clave music and used it in his pieces.
African-Americans around the turn of the century also started gaining notoriety in literary fields as well as music. The establishment of black focused universities in the South after the National War helped educate newly freed slaves. Many of these, such as Mississippi Delta University in Vicksburg and Attucks University in Birmingham, were initially agricultural schools to teach freedmen how to better manage their new lands. However, they soon developed into full-fledged African-American institutions. One of the alumni of Attucks University was Scott Joplin, who later became a wealthy landowner and a successful North Carolina businessman. These universities produced a number of African-American writers who catalogued the experience of freedmen and others' experiences before and after the National War. Along with these non-fiction works, African-American poetry also flourished. Blacks in the South often wrote poems based on working chants from slavery or of life on the Mississippi River. African-American poetry at this time was also not just in English. Juan Gualberto Gomez[8] wrote poetry in both Spanish and English in Cuba, while Alphonse Picou wrote in French and a local Creole dialect in New Orleans.
[1] Based on the abandoned 40 Acres and a Mule idea.
[2] History keeps stealing what I think are original ideas.
This is essentially what led to the Great Migration in the 1930s and 1940s in OTL.[3] The Chickasaw State Capitol is located at the OTL Shelby County Courthouse, and was built after the Great Fire of 1871 burned down the courthouse.
[4] Cabildos were social clubs for Africans of different cultural groups in Cuba in the 18th century, but had declined by the early 19th century. ITTL the term is revived as music clubs. One of the oldest jazz clubs in New York City ITTL is the Cabildo Lucumi, named after the Spanish term for the Yoruba people.
[5] TTL's term for Delta blues.
[6] Clave is the term for jazz music, which ITTL has a bigger and earlier Latin influence.
[7] You may know him by his OTL nickname, Jelly Roll Morton.
[8] Gomez was an OTL politician and journalist who was a leader during Cuba's independence fight and spoke out against American imperialism in Cuba during the early 1900s.
Update's done!
Part Ninety-Eight: African-Americans in the Nineteenth Century
Black and White Relations:
The aftermath of the National War left a lot of land in the former Confederacy vacant. After many rich planters had fled the United States after the war to Veracruz, Brazil, and other countries in Ibero-America, the land they had owned was bought up by the federal government during the military government of the Confederate states. The Fremont administration passed the Freedmen Land Act in 1871, which authorized the sale of these Reclaimed Lands to blacks who had been freed from slavery[1]. Over the next five years, the land, mostly in Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and South Carolina, was sold to blacks. For a short time the newly landed blacks prospered on the Reclaimed Land. However, many white landowners in the South felt threatened by the prosperity of the freedmen. Democratic governments in rural counties of the Deep South passed laws restricting black ownership of land, and neighboring landowners often used threats and violence to force freedmen to sell their plots.
While during the Fremont and Lee administrations, many of the forced removals of blacks from their lands were blocked by Republican state courts, the protection of freedmen land ownership was neglected after the election of Winfield Scott Hancock onward. The Hancock administration ignored many cases of freedmen being forced off their land. Because of this, some freedmen left the rural parts of the Southern states for cities, especially the new manufacturing centers along the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. The urbanization of Southern black society was expanded by the infestation of the boll weevil in the South in the late 19th century and the Silver Depression[2]. By the end of the century, significant black communities arose in cities like Memphis, New Orleans, Cairo, and Birmingham.
During the Silver Depression, the increase in black communities in many of these cities worsened race relations among the poorer populations of the cities, especially along the Mississippi River. The first notable incident of racial violence in the cities was in Memphis, Chickasaw in 1889. When the Vanderbilt Steamship company hired blacks to run steamboats across the river, a group of whites massed at the Memphis dockyards and burned two of the riverboats at the docks. The situation escalated into a riot and fighting between whites and blacks last for two days in the blocks surrounding the Chickasaw State Capitol[3]. There were further large race riots in Richmond in 1895, Memphis in 1902, and Montgomery in 1905.
Blacks in Politics and Culture:
While the decades after the National War saw hardship for some blacks in the South, the era also saw a flourishing of black participation in culture and politics. During the late 19th century, several African-Americans were elected to political office at the state level as well as in Congress. The first black to be elected to the House of Representative and the Senate was Hiram Rhodes of Mississippi. Rhodes served as Congressman from 1871 to 1875 and was elected to the Senate for one term in 1874. Later, Benjamin William Arnett of Ohio became the first black man to represent Congress from a northern state when he was elected as a Democrat to the House in 1882. Arnett forged a friendship with future president William McKinley who helped Arnett gain influence. Another notable black politician of the late 19th century was Antonio Maceo Grajales, who was elected Representative and Senator from Cuba during the turn of the century.
Around the turn of the 20th century, African-American culture also experienced a rise in popularity and influence. Matanzas and New Orleans already had a thriving African cultural legacy as centers of black culture. The revival and spread of the cabildos[4] in Matanzas and other cities in Cuba in the late 19th century helped spread Afro-Cuban musical styles such as the son, changui, rumba, and comparsa. As Cuba became a popular destination for travelers from the Northeast, cabildos soon opened up in New York, Brooklyn, and other cities. At the same time, freedmen and creoles in New Orleans and other cities spread the influence of mainland African music around the country, particularly Yazoo blues[5] and ragtime. In Southern coastal cities such as Jacksonville and Pensacola, frequently these two styles mixed and led to the development of clave music[6], which became widely popular in the early 20th century. One of the most influential clave artists was Ferdinand Morton[7], who often took the rhythms of Cuban clave music and used it in his pieces.
African-Americans around the turn of the century also started gaining notoriety in literary fields as well as music. The establishment of black focused universities in the South after the National War helped educate newly freed slaves. Many of these, such as Mississippi Delta University in Vicksburg and Attucks University in Birmingham, were initially agricultural schools to teach freedmen how to better manage their new lands. However, they soon developed into full-fledged African-American institutions. One of the alumni of Attucks University was Scott Joplin, who later became a wealthy landowner and a successful North Carolina businessman. These universities produced a number of African-American writers who catalogued the experience of freedmen and others' experiences before and after the National War. Along with these non-fiction works, African-American poetry also flourished. Blacks in the South often wrote poems based on working chants from slavery or of life on the Mississippi River. African-American poetry at this time was also not just in English. Juan Gualberto Gomez[8] wrote poetry in both Spanish and English in Cuba, while Alphonse Picou wrote in French and a local Creole dialect in New Orleans.
[1] Based on the abandoned 40 Acres and a Mule idea.
[2] History keeps stealing what I think are original ideas.
[3] The Chickasaw State Capitol is located at the OTL Shelby County Courthouse, and was built after the Great Fire of 1871 burned down the courthouse.
[4] Cabildos were social clubs for Africans of different cultural groups in Cuba in the 18th century, but had declined by the early 19th century. ITTL the term is revived as music clubs. One of the oldest jazz clubs in New York City ITTL is the Cabildo Lucumi, named after the Spanish term for the Yoruba people.
[5] TTL's term for Delta blues.
[6] Clave is the term for jazz music, which ITTL has a bigger and earlier Latin influence.
[7] You may know him by his OTL nickname, Jelly Roll Morton.
[8] Gomez was an OTL politician and journalist who was a leader during Cuba's independence fight and spoke out against American imperialism in Cuba during the early 1900s.
MY LOVE TO THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS OF THIS TTL!!!
Despite prevalent racism on them, the political and cultural space given to them by TTL's USA were almost pretty much the same as OTL's Jews of the pre 1960's era. What made this possible sir? The exodus of rich white planters, thus lessening their influence on molding the minds of poorer Southerners?
The high rate of urbanization among African-Americans will increase their political and cultural influence, and fortunately the risk of political radicalisation due to economic poverty seems to be avoided (at least for now).
Keep it up, Wilcox!
I certainly hope that will remain true, gentlemen.
Clave does sound a little strange to me as well......ah well.
Seconded.
How big, though?
Its almost a ghost town today ,rubble in the streets etc so imagining a thriving city there is what makes alternate history worth the while and I do remember wilcox sayin it would be a substantial concern