Union and Liberty: An American TL

Hey everyone. Sorry I haven't been responsive in the past few days. The next update will definitely be done tomorrow or Sunday, but I might be able to get it done tonight.

I'm not sure how long this will last, the moment gasoline prices drop enough the gas auto will win out as in OTL. Though electric transportation grids might be developed enough that they won't disappear.

The only way I see the electric car surviving, is if the first company to use an assembly line ala Model-T goes electric. Thus electric cars become cheap and accessible before gas prices drop. If you get people used to electric and convince them that gas is noisy or heavy duty then perhaps the small electric cars will beat out. Wilcox has this happened BTW? The update only covered development of the car industry, but unless someone has streamlined it my guess is that cars are still very much just a thing for the upper-middle class and above.

The update doesn't mention motorcycles but I guess it won't be long before someone attaches a small motor to a bicycle and calls it an "autocycle?"
The assembly line is first used for auto manufacturing at about the same time as OTL. And I like the name autocycle for motorcycles. :D Those will probably be invented pretty soon.

This is cool, and it sounds plausible to me; though I am not an expert either. The only thing is that the more I think about it the mor limiting the uses of the teletype appear to be. You have to "dail" the place you are sending the messages to phones at the time still worked with operators. Thus their distribution is likely still jut for big businesses and government use.

Though one form of use cou be that a Cafes subscribe to a news teletype service, and instal a teletype for their costumers to recive news and send messages to be posted on the paper as well.

Still I like the idea of communication tech being slightly ahead OTL. Is there any particular tech area that is behind OTL?
Yeah, the peer-to-peer connection is the only thing that I'm having trouble figuring out how it will work. There would definitely be a desire to replace manual operators with an automatic system, but I'm not sure how feasible it is.

As for any tech that is behind OTL, I'm actually not sure. I mostly am just having transportation and communications technology be ahead of OTL so far, but I don't know if any area would be lagging.

I checked out the "telephone newspaper" article on wikipedia and was fascinated. I had never heard of such a thing! :p

The idea of "teletype cafes" is fascinating. Even if they disappear circa 1930 like OTL (replaced by who-knows-what ;)), their greater popularity ITTL will certainly have a major impact on popular culture and beyond.
Yeah, I didn't know they existed, and they were pretty in line with how I was envisioning the teletype networks would be operating. :D

BTW, Wilcox: have you figured out what names are you giving to radio, TV, and some later tech?

And in terms of entertainment, how is cinema developing. The kinetoscope had already been around for about two decades, and the first projected cinema began projecting in the 1890s.
I haven't decided on the names for much later tech yet.

I've been starting to think about early cinema, but haven't set anything.
 
I've been starting to think about early cinema, but haven't set anything.

Well Edison is gone, and my guess so is the Edison Trust or equivalent. This will mean that early filmmakers will have more liberty to use the equipment and produce their own films.

The industry will likely still move out of New York, due to lack of space and bad weather, but it might take longer than in OTL as the Trust was a good reason for all non-Edison affiliates to move to California as soon as they could. Here they might just trickle out towards (Memphis or St. Louis might be a good place) slowly and some will stay in NY.

One thing that would be interesting would be to have a less institutionalized/centralized film industry in the US. In OTL the major Studios and Exhibitors have always controlled it in some fashion or other through institutions like the Production Code, the MPAA, the Guilds etc, and the fact that they were all centralized in the same city didn't help.

A decentralized industry could be very interesting both within the US and at world level.

Also about NYC, on one of the very first updates there is a mention that Staten Island is in New Jersey in TTL and Brooklyn hasn't been consolidated. If New York consists only on Manhattan (and the Bronx) then I expect that its growth potential in the 20th century is somewhat hindered
 
Well Edison is gone, and my guess so is the Edison Trust or equivalent. This will mean that early filmmakers will have more liberty to use the equipment and produce their own films.

The industry will likely still move out of New York, due to lack of space and bad weather, but it might take longer than in OTL as the Trust was a good reason for all non-Edison affiliates to move to California as soon as they could. Here they might just trickle out towards (Memphis or St. Louis might be a good place) slowly and some will stay in NY.

One thing that would be interesting would be to have a less institutionalized/centralized film industry in the US. In OTL the major Studios and Exhibitors have always controlled it in some fashion or other through institutions like the Production Code, the MPAA, the Guilds etc, and the fact that they were all centralized in the same city didn't help.

A decentralized industry could be very interesting both within the US and at world level.

Also about NYC, on one of the very first updates there is a mention that Staten Island is in New Jersey in TTL and Brooklyn hasn't been consolidated. If New York consists only on Manhattan (and the Bronx) then I expect that its growth potential in the 20th century is somewhat hindered

I don't know about St. Louis or Memphis......Nashville or Miami might be pretty decent, though. Perhaps, if Wilcox would like to consider my suggestion, maybe even Jacksonville, Fla. could be a popular place for the early film industry ITTL(it actually was kinda popular IOTL until Hollywood started growing in prominence). :D
 
I don't know about St. Louis or Memphis......Nashville or Miami might be pretty decent, though. Perhaps, if Wilcox would like to consider my suggestion, maybe even Jacksonville, Fla. could be a popular place for the early film industry ITTL(it actually was kinda popular IOTL until Hollywood started growing in prominence). :D

Nashville I can see it happening. Miami is quite unlikely, having Cuba with in the US probably means South Florida won't be as developed; Miami only happened in OTL because of late investment post-war and later Cuban immigration. Ibero's here seem if heading out of Cuba, seem to be going into Jackson and most likely the Tampa Bay area.

Jacksonville could be interesting. I only mentioned Memphis, St Louis because of the Confluence megalopolis Wilcox has mentioned he want to create. Having the film industry located there will only help get people to move. Furthermore Memphis will likely still get the music industry boom (Nashville would be a good choice for the same reason).
 
Nashville I can see it happening. Miami is quite unlikely, having Cuba with in the US probably means South Florida won't be as developed; Miami only happened in OTL because of late investment post-war and later Cuban immigration. Ibero's here seem if heading out of Cuba, seem to be going into Jackson and most likely the Tampa Bay area.

Jacksonville could be interesting. I only mentioned Memphis, St Louis because of the Confluence megalopolis Wilcox has mentioned he want to create. Having the film industry located there will only help get people to move. Furthermore Memphis will likely still get the music industry boom (Nashville would be a good choice for the same reason).

Yeah, good point about South Florida there(I wouldn't be surprised if Miami did still become pretty sizable eventually, though.). Same with the Confluence idea; the film industry helped L.A. enormously IOTL. I don't think things are likely to be too different ITTL, no matter which city hits the jackpot. :D
 
That's some good discussion on the movie industry. While a decentralized film industry would be interesting, I think it would naturally concentrate in one or two areas just because of the scale required as the industry gets going. The location is a bit of a conundrum. LA was chosen in OTL because you had a lot of different geographic settings in such short distance, but I'm not sure where in the TTL US you could get that. Somewhere in the future Confluence Megalopolis is also a good idea to get urban growth going there.

After following off and on over the years I've recently gotten caught up on your timeline. I like it alot :)
Thanks for reading! :) Always glad to have a new commenter.

When's the next update? I really want to see it
It should be up in the next couple hours. I'm finally working on the last section. As for your earlier question, the Marx Brothers probably haven't been born ITTL, though I could possibly see their parents realistically finding each other after immigrating to NYC as in OTL.
 
That's some good discussion on the movie industry. While a decentralized film industry would be interesting, I think it would naturally concentrate in one or two areas just because of the scale required as the industry gets going. The location is a bit of a conundrum. LA was chosen in OTL because you had a lot of different geographic settings in such short distance, but I'm not sure where in the TTL US you could get that. Somewhere in the future Confluence Megalopolis is also a good idea to get urban growth going there.

Actually, LA's geographic diversity was a very minor reason for the studios moving there. The primary reason for moving out of NYC was the Trust (at first) and lack of space (later after the Edison Trust was declared monopolistic).

Since most films were filmed on sound stages at the time or in outdoor studios, geography wasn't an issue. It was climate, the ability to film year round, and while the Trust and the law was still an issue, having the Mexican border next door was useful. LA's geography only became an added plus a few years later.

In TTL without something as good as LA, the Confluence is probably your best shot. Miami, Havanna, and New Orelan's climate is not the best choice for handling film.

So I would bet on a slow but steady movement from New York to St Louis or Cairo (Cario would be interesting as it is essentially a ghost town in OTL but would be a thriving center of culture in TTL). But you might still end up with two centers Cario and NY, and since Brooklyn didn't get incorporated in TTL, and it has more space to fit an industry that requires space, it is much more likely that the film industry end up based in Brooklyn not NYC.

I reckon we will have a good rivalry grow between the Northeast and the Confluence? (And within those a NYC/Brooklyn one and a St-Louis/Cairo one).
 
Part Ninety-Five: Testing the Waters
Here's the update! Also correcting the number on the last one since I had two 93s, and added some footnotes to the New Left update a few pages back since I forgot to do that.

Part Ninety-Five: Testing the Waters

The American Navy: The early twentieth century saw the first true expansion of the United States navy into a modern military force. While the United States had seen previous major naval action during the war of 1812 and the National War, the navy had been cut in size during the latter 19th century and remained mostly a brown-water navy. However, with the increasing involvement of the United States in the Caribbean and the naval arms race between Great Britain and France, the government recognized the need for a stronger navy that was better capable of force projection. The major expansion was headed by president McKinley's appointment of Admiral Joshua Talbott as Secretary of the Navy in 1902.

Prior to being chosen as Secretary of the Navy, Talbott had served in the United States navy during the National War and later was a Representative for eight years from 1885 to 1891 and 1895 to 1897. With his distinguished naval career and representing Baltimore during his terms in Congress, Talbott developed a great concern for improving the navy that extended into his service as Navy Secretary. During the seven years that Talbott served as Secretary, he consolidated the navy into three larger fleets centered on the Atlantic, the Caribbean, and the Pacific. During this time, the United States also constructed several modern battleships to strengthen the navy's blue-water capabilities. Talbott also has the distinction of serving as Secretary of the Navy under both presidents McKinley and Roosevelt.


Tariff Wars: The other major issue that McKinley faced when he came into office in 1901 was over tariffs. Previously, the Democratic Party had been for lower tariffs. But with McKinley and other Eagle Democrats now dictating the party platform, the Democratic Party switched policy and argued for raising tariffs. In accordance with the platform, New York Representative John Wilbur Wright proposed the Tariff of 1902 which would raise tariffs, particularly on manufactured goods, wool, and sugar. The bill was strongly geared toward tariffs that were favorable to the Northeast and Cuba and quickly gained the support of these Congressmen. However, the tariff faced tough opposition from many Progressives and Republicans in the House. Many Republicans and Progressives objected to the tariff in general, but in the South, even some Democrats opposed the bill[1]. The concerns of the South focused especially to how much the bill favored the Northeast in the tariffs rates that were changed. With this backlash in Congress, the wrangling over the Tariff of 1902 began.

Some of the major opposition to the Tariff of 1902 in the House of Representatives came from Congressmen in the South. Champ Clark of Missouri, Alfred Taylor of Tennessee, and other Republicans in the South voiced their concerns that the bill would raise consumer prices in the country and hurt American agricultural industries. Even a few Southern Democrats opposed the bill when it was first proposed. However, after several heated debates in Congress over the tariffs despite McKinley's personal approval of the bill, it remained in the House. It was not until late in the year that Democratic Congressman Anselm McLaurin proposed an amendment that also raised sufficient tariffs on agricultural goods. The Tariff of 1902 finally gained enough support to pass through the House and the Senate, and was signed by President McKinley in November of 1902. The Tariff also included a specific rise in rates for imports from British North America, partially in response to a similar rise in tariffs in Canada[2].

[1] Partially due to the few Bourbon Democrats still in the House.
[2] MacDonald's tariff policy still arises in Canada in TTL.
 
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Spengler

Banned
Well the rise in tariffs will certainly not help relations with the British Empire. Although you are making it rather clear that hostilities between Britain and the USA are a possibility.
 
As for your earlier question, the Marx Brothers probably haven't been born ITTL

This is a terrible dystopic world not worth living in :mad: I don't care what butterflies you have to pull, but please don't get rid of the founders of modern comedy! :eek::(

And now we know that Roosevelt wins in 1904. I guess the tariff doesn't work out?
 
This is a terrible dystopic world not worth living in :mad: I don't care what butterflies you have to pull, but please don't get rid of the founders of modern comedy! :eek::(

And now we know that Roosevelt wins in 1904. I guess the tariff doesn't work out?

I like the Marx brothers, but what about poor Alaska? Hopefully it won't remain Russian for too much longer. :( :)p)
 
I like the Marx brothers, but what about poor Alaska? Hopefully it won't remain Russian for too much longer. :( :)p)

I, for one, hope that Alaska remains Russian or becomes a Russian dominion. I really like that it is still there and am rather curious as to what life is like there.
 
I, for one, hope that Alaska remains Russian or becomes a Russian dominion. I really like that it is still there and am rather curious as to what life is like there.

In all honesty, I guess a Russian satellite would be pretty interesting, and unique, to boot. Though if not American, Alaska is likely to either become independent, or become British if London approves Ottawa's attempt to buy the place from the Russians. :D
 
In all honesty, I guess a Russian satellite would be pretty interesting, and unique, to boot. Though if not American, Alaska is likely to either become independent, or become British if London approves Ottawa's attempt to buy the place from the Russians. :D

There is no Ottowa in TTL (Canada's capital is Kingston) and Russia already "bought" the Yukon from Britain. The way this is headed a British Alaska is much more unlikely than a Russian New Caledonia.

Alaska will either stay Russian or go American. I hope it stays Russian. If America is to expand New Caledonia is what it is most likely to take, I think. And Deseret might vote to be annexed but that will certainly be through a post-war referendum. If those two go in, even if New Caledonia is split with the Russians we get a ydecently sized US without the need to sacrifice TTL's unique little things like Russian Alyeska and Independent California.
 
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