Unified Iberian Peninsula

Could Spain have somehow managed to keep control of Portugal and gradually annex it to Spain after a prolonged dual monarchy? Can such a union last long term with Portugal being content to be a part of a greater Spanish state? Does this translate to less central control and a happier Catalonia? Can this bigger Spain be more successful in world affairs in subsequent years than OTL? More reform-minded and less conservative?
 
You could always just have the initial revolt that led to independent Portugual fail in 12th century and thus it stays part of Leon / Castille
 

Lusitania

Donor
Ugh and double ugh.

As long as Spain is involved in Europe it will have issues that will drag Portugal into it and without adequate resources the Portuguese will resent the Spanish.
 
Have it be a Portuguese-led affair or have the Spanish be more removed from Europe. In a scenario where the Netherlands went to Austria instead of Spain during the splitting of the Hapsburg realm, you could see the Spanish successfully suppress Portuguese revolts to the point that Portugal is successfully joined to Spain as a constituent Kingdom.

Ugh and double ugh.

As long as Spain is involved in Europe it will have issues that will drag Portugal into it and without adequate resources the Portuguese will resent the Spanish.

Portugal wouldn't be the first nor the last nation to resent an overlord, but that doesn't necessarily translate to successful independence attempts. Is it really worth walking into every thread on a united Iberia and pushing how distinct Portugal is from the rest of the Iberian crowns? You're obviously never going to like talking about the topic, just like I'll always roll my eyes at any timeline that takes the conquest of the Inca for granted.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Have it be a Portuguese-led affair or have the Spanish be more removed from Europe. In a scenario where the Netherlands went to Austria instead of Spain during the splitting of the Hapsburg realm, you could see the Spanish successfully suppress Portuguese revolts to the point that Portugal is successfully joined to Spain as a constituent Kingdom.



Portugal wouldn't be the first nor the last nation to resent an overlord, but that doesn't necessarily translate to successful independence attempts. Is it really worth walking into every thread on a united Iberia and pushing how distinct Portugal is from the rest of the Iberian crowns? You're obviously never going to like talking about the topic, just like I'll always roll my eyes at any timeline that takes the conquest of the Inca for granted.
No it would not be. We have several threads about a Lisbon led Spain plus I guess a few where Spain leads an Iberian Union. As you stated a Spain not involved in Hapsburg Europe would be one that has the resources to manage both Spanish and Portuguese empires. The Dutch and European situation sucked up too much ch money
 
Whu would the capital has to be Lisbon IMO Madrid would make more sense for the Alpha dog of a United Iberian Peninsula would be Casille if the Habsburgs don't loose it in the XVII th Century
 

Lusitania

Donor
Whu would the capital has to be Lisbon IMO Madrid would make more sense for the Alpha dog of a United Iberian Peninsula would be Casille if the Habsburgs don't loose it in the XVII th Century
Because historically there were a few times where through marriage Spanish Kingdom was taken over by Portuguese king.
 
When the Habsburgs took Portugal then the whole Peninsula was under on King in the former cases the Peninsula wasn't fully United (Aragon Granade Navarra were still indpendent}
So IMO the Habsburgs keeping Portugal is easiest way
 
If the Portugese stayed with Spain it would become a monster colonial power real cool.
Let Philip II just abandon the Netherlands and full focus on Portuese Empire(perhaps Butterfly away the Dutch against Portugal)and maybe no Dutch in the East
 
Any Wayne know of any proposed marriages between members of the royal families of Aragorn and Portugal? Might be a way to get things through the back door if you have multiple kingdoms , with Spain as th eoverarching title. Just need to time it right.
 

Lusitania

Donor
If the Portugese stayed with Spain it would become a monster colonial power real cool.
Let Philip II just abandon the Netherlands and full focus on Portuese Empire(perhaps Butterfly away the Dutch against Portugal)and maybe no Dutch in the East

First stop the Spanish Armada folley for it destroyed both the Spanish and Portuguese fleets. Provide the Portuguese with the military support to expand and defend its Indian holdings. The Dutch be fighting a much larger opponent and be weakened.

To make the union more stable they could spend half their time in Lisbon get some fresh sea breeze to cleanse out the hot and dreadful Madrid air they breath the other half of year
 
Easy get rid of the Habsburgs, If Spain doesn't spend all her time on defending the indefensible Hapsburgs empire that is getting attacked from all sides to just holding portugal and Italy as her European holdings then it shouldn't be a problem.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Easy get rid of the Habsburgs, If Spain doesn't spend all her time on defending the indefensible Hapsburgs empire that is getting attacked from all sides to just holding portugal and Italy as her European holdings then it shouldn't be a problem.
Easier said than done. It would of changed the dynamics of all of Europe. A rich Spain flush with $$$ from its new world possessions and Portugal's India trade would be so tempted to get involved in Europe and 'FIX" the problems besieging the continent. It would be lobbied relentlessly to support the various Catholic endeavors to write the wrongs being afflicted by the Protestants and also to turn its attention to the Ottoman Empire and its hold on the holy land.
 
Easier said than done. It would of changed the dynamics of all of Europe. A rich Spain flush with $$$ from its new world possessions and Portugal's India trade would be so tempted to get involved in Europe and 'FIX" the problems besieging the continent. It would be lobbied relentlessly to support the various Catholic endeavors to write the wrongs being afflicted by the Protestants and also to turn its attention to the Ottoman Empire and its hold on the holy land.
Which might be manageable in a World where the Spanish Hapsburgs were not also the overlords of the Low Countries. They can remain Hapsburg ruled but it would be the Austrian Hapsburgs or even a cadet branch. They can outsource their defense to England and the Germans instead who don't want the region ruled by the French any more than the Spanish do. This should be achievable enough and in a world where the Hapsburgs marry and become Kings of England it should be even easier.

To make the union more stable they could spend half their time in Lisbon get some fresh sea breeze to cleanse out the hot and dreadful Madrid air they breath the other half of year
Since you seem to know your stuff, what would be the chances that there could be a Situation like West Germany had? The capital would be moved but it would not be Lisbon or Madrid, but to a third compromise location that would be located near or inside the present day Portugal border. And do you have any suggestions of what what city or town that would be?
 

Lusitania

Donor
Which might be manageable in a World where the Spanish Hapsburgs were not also the overlords of the Low Countries. They can remain Hapsburg ruled but it would be the Austrian Hapsburgs or even a cadet branch. They can outsource their defense to England and the Germans instead who don't want the region ruled by the French any more than the Spanish do. This should be achievable enough and in a world where the Hapsburgs marry and become Kings of England it should be even easier.


Since you seem to know your stuff, what would be the chances that there could be a Situation like West Germany had? The capital would be moved but it would not be Lisbon or Madrid, but to a third compromise location that would be located near or inside the present day Portugal border. And do you have any suggestions of what what city or town that would be?
Actually a dual capital might be the best. With the court being in Madrid for half the year and Lisbon for the other half, if the two countries were the primary interest instead of Europe which was iOTL. Not sure how Spanish court feel about that though
 
Actually a dual capital might be the best. With the court being in Madrid for half the year and Lisbon for the other half, if the two countries were the primary interest instead of Europe which was iOTL. Not sure how Spanish court feel about that though
Probably not, it's not like the capital of Britain moved to Edinburgh, just because of the royal family originated from there, sure it might work for a little bit but soon it will gravitate to the center of power, which is in Castile.
 
Probably not, it's not like the capital of Britain moved to Edinburgh, just because of the royal family originated from there, sure it might work for a little bit but soon it will gravitate to the center of power, which is in Castile.

And either Madrid or Toledo act as the natural center of the Iberian Peninsula anyway. However, we could see some sort of devolution over time similar to how Scotland has its own parliament?
 
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