Uncommon UCS Colors
- Thread starter Iori
- Start date
Sure, but he reported that he had a source and didn't draw by heart.
So let me rephrase that: Where did you get all these borders from?
Thande
Donor
I changed it because it was too similar to Japanese yellow when the two run together (especially on small islands). I recycled the old orange-yellow colour for Argentina.
Source map below.
Some of the borders I drew in are internal, but I didn't bother distinguishing them when I was tracing it.
If there was never a German unification, American students would never ever pass geography, if they ever really taught geography.
Thande
Donor
They didn't show all the little states on most maps of the period. For example, here's a plate from a British school atlas printed in 1810:
I noted they did indeed put all the ethnic German lands together as one country like that in maps of the period (sans the separate Prussia), I know a 1787 English map and 1763 French one that did the same.
Thande
Donor
And Italy. It lends weight to Susano's rants about German and Italian unification being inevitable: though they might be politically divided, the commonality of language and culture was still recognised by maps. Contrast with the Balkans, where nationalism was far more arbitrary and inventive as the Ottoman Empire fell away.
Thank you Thande!
I'm already colouring happily about ...
Does anyone have an idea about that?
I'm confused by the hachured areas between Austria and Salzburg / inside Austria.
For instance, the bigger one touching the lower border of the map left of letter "E" seems to contain Windisch-Grätz and hence should be part of one of the Austrian Duchies.
The one left of that, containing Zell am See, I supposed to be part of Salzburg.
Hardly any idea about the other ones.
Do you happen to know what they ought to mean?
I'm already colouring happily about ...
Does anyone have an idea about that?
I'm confused by the hachured areas between Austria and Salzburg / inside Austria.
For instance, the bigger one touching the lower border of the map left of letter "E" seems to contain Windisch-Grätz and hence should be part of one of the Austrian Duchies.
The one left of that, containing Zell am See, I supposed to be part of Salzburg.
Hardly any idea about the other ones.
Do you happen to know what they ought to mean?
Thande
Donor
From knocking about in German Wikipedia, the crosshatched areas seem to be semi-autonomous states owing feudal allegiance to the Hapsburgs but under the direct rule of local rulers. Although confusingly not all of them seem to be religious entities, considering the map uses the same colour as for the religious states.
I think it was just the map makers being lazy in the case of Italy and just not wanting to spend twice as much time on Germany as they had on the rest of the map.
Alex Richards
Donor
Well, here's the starting point. Thande's HRE Map with existing UCS colours. I think we need ones which are taken to be used for:
Bavaria
Baden
Württemburg
Saxony
Both Hesses
Nassau
The Monastic states?/Collegiate Foundations (Purple on above map)
Anhalt
Brunswick
Free Cities
Thurungian duchies.
These should not necessarily need to be brand new ones.
Had to link to deviantArt
Bavaria
Baden
Württemburg
Saxony
Both Hesses
Nassau
The Monastic states?/Collegiate Foundations (Purple on above map)
Anhalt
Brunswick
Free Cities
Thurungian duchies.
These should not necessarily need to be brand new ones.
Had to link to deviantArt
Alex Richards
Donor
I think red is a very common colour for the Imperial cities (that map, some others on Wikipedia and Collin's Atlas of World History all use it). It's almost an unofficial consensus there.
Green suits Bavaria, contrasting nicely with the Purple of Austria. I like Valdemar's Saxony Colour. I've seen some maps with two browns for the Hesses and a grey for Nassau which work well together. For Baden-I think a different Green (as depending on era yellow, Blue and Purple are off limits) and Wurttemburg, perhaps yellow?
Perhaps more than that, it seems to mark a NATO military presence in south-east Turkey, right on top of the Incirlik Air Base
Thande
Donor
That's true.
You might want to avoid UCS altogether to avoid confusion if you're using colours for other states. I was planning to use similar colours to the ones off the original basemap for easy reference.
Oops, I'm late. I started with colouring Bavaria and Palatinate.
As to the cities and clergical possessions:
I would like to use different shades to separate different episcopal sees and abbeys.
I suppose it is best to link territories under the same rule with very thin lines if they have an ambiguous colour. Of course, that can get messy soon ...
Thande, your map is really a great help and surely has been a lot of work.
Just if anybody of you wants to build on it as well - I had to change the following tiny items:
And I can't upload the map here either.
Seems like I'll have to get me an account on that Deviant site?
EDIT: Arrgh, they really want to know my real name?
That would be a badge too far. Let's see if there is another method of supplying my map ...
As to the cities and clergical possessions:
I would like to use different shades to separate different episcopal sees and abbeys.
I suppose it is best to link territories under the same rule with very thin lines if they have an ambiguous colour. Of course, that can get messy soon ...
Thande, your map is really a great help and surely has been a lot of work.
Just if anybody of you wants to build on it as well - I had to change the following tiny items:
- the Nahe, Brigach, and Trave rivers converted from borders back into water bodies (can this process be described as liquidation?),
- added the Western border of Bishopric of Passau (towards Bavaria)
- added border between Mainz - Nassau
- extended the border Sponheim - Mainz
- added that region directly North of Frankfurt (I have no idea what that should be)
- erased the contours of the city of Mainz (not a free city any more)
And I can't upload the map here either.
Seems like I'll have to get me an account on that Deviant site?
EDIT: Arrgh, they really want to know my real name?
That would be a badge too far. Let's see if there is another method of supplying my map ...
Last edited:
Penelope
Banned
Perhaps instead of having "uncommon colors" for UCS, we could have the overlying color scheme, with different colors for each major era?
Example:
-Ancient UCS with colors for not only Rome and Persia, but a separate color for the Greek city-states, and Alexander's Greece. Colors could be applied for the different civilizations that the Romans and Alexander conquered during their respective times, and colors for the major barbarian tribes which led to Rome's collapse.
Example:
-Ancient UCS with colors for not only Rome and Persia, but a separate color for the Greek city-states, and Alexander's Greece. Colors could be applied for the different civilizations that the Romans and Alexander conquered during their respective times, and colors for the major barbarian tribes which led to Rome's collapse.
Susano
Banned
The Imperial Free Cities indeed are always red, and the ecclestial territories always purple (with maybe a varying shade, going from lighter to darker at abbeys etc.->bishoprics->archbishoprics, and on international level ->papal states, most likely). Of course, that clashes with Habsburg purple. Though come to think of it there is that one good online map series, which Ive used as basemaps before, which colours free imperial cities yellow... but thats the the only derivation from red Ive seen.
Since I always try to introduce as much of the Putzger colour standard as possible , I would indeed use green for Bavaria (and hence a variant of green for the Palatinate) and also light rose/pink for (Upper) Saxony (and hence another shade of pink for the Ernestine duchies in Thuringia). At least the Bavarian green seems to have a broad consensus, too. And yellow for Hannover (and hence its precedessor states) seems common, too.
The early medieval German stem duchies are another problem anyways, I mean its not only (Lower) Saxony, but also Franconia... though a Bavaria-like continuation of Lotharingia->Upper Lotharingia->Lorraine would maybe make sense. But in any case I dont think we need to think about accomodating early (lower) Saxony anyways
About HRE borders, the wiki maps are not bad, but Ive found they have some inexacties. Very detailed at the state of 1789 is of course Hoeckmann, but it has no all-German map.
Since I always try to introduce as much of the Putzger colour standard as possible
, I would indeed use green for Bavaria (and hence a variant of green for the Palatinate) and also light rose/pink for (Upper) Saxony (and hence another shade of pink for the Ernestine duchies in Thuringia). At least the Bavarian green seems to have a broad consensus, too. And yellow for Hannover (and hence its precedessor states) seems common, too. The early medieval German stem duchies are another problem anyways, I mean its not only (Lower) Saxony, but also Franconia... though a Bavaria-like continuation of Lotharingia->Upper Lotharingia->Lorraine would maybe make sense. But in any case I dont think we need to think about accomodating early (lower) Saxony anyways
About HRE borders, the wiki maps are not bad, but Ive found they have some inexacties. Very detailed at the state of 1789 is of course Hoeckmann, but it has no all-German map.
Thande
Donor
That's because I added the rivers then the borders sequentially, but missed some the first time around and forgot to change the colours.
The best way is to create a page on the AH.com Wiki, upload the file there, then right-click and click "View Image" (if you're using Firefox) and use the link in the web bar in the [IMG ] tags on this thread.