Uncle Hermann

MrHola

Banned
I was thinking about a timeline where Adolf Hitler dies in late 1938 and Hermann Goering takes over as the Fuhrer of Nazi Germany. Then, I have Stalin grow even more paranoid that he takes a risky gamble: invasion of Poland in the '40s (probably ASB). The UK, France, Italy and Nazi Germany declare war and defeat the USSR.

So, what would Japan do? The US? What kind of Fuhrer would Goering be?
 
This is going to turn very nasty. There's no guarantee that the allies will defeat Stalin, and their war aims will be very different. Goering might simply agree to all war aims proposed with no intention of ever following through, so you could see a reverse postwar in which German troops stay in place throughout Eastern Europe and fascist client regimes are set up, territories are 'adjusted' and German holdings regained. The really scary thing is that it could work.

Japan might just be willing to join in the fun if it is promised Soviet territory in Siberia. It's not like they would be a very effective belligerent on land, but it's probably good to have them close the Eastern ports (easy enough for the IJN) and keep up a threat to prevent troops moved out of the Eastern provinces.

The USA, without provocation, might just stay out of this mess completely. Nobody will shed a tear for the USSR, and neither Japan nor Nazi Germany have enough support to trigger US intervention. France and Britain would be co-belligerents more than allies and would be able to fight this war at a greater remove, probably also with a bigger profit, but will end up facing a much strengthened Germany at the end of it.

Four-way cold war? Britain and France cast themselves as defenders of freedom against the Nazi menace that has swallowed up all of Eastern Europe, but cling to their colonial empires to support their military might while the USA urges them to let them go, but is unwilling to commit itself to a European war if the Germans cross the Rhine. Japan absorbs it East Asian gains and foments rebellion among the colonies, still fighting to crush China while hypocriotically demanding only Asians be allowed to oppress Asians. The United States are most concerned about the Pacific flank. Rump Russia is slowly restoring its military power and begins planning for a rematch.

Goering is likely to be a lot like Franco, though a lot more destructive. He doesn't share hitler's genocidal madness, but he does have a megalomaniac streak and would just love to play 'Risk' with live pieces.
 

MrHola

Banned
I could see an Anglo-French Union developing between the UK and France as a defence measurement against the Nazi's and the resurgent communists. While Japan will butt heads with the USA later on. I could also see Goering shipping the Jews from Germany and it's occupied territories to Madagascar instead of outright exterminating them.

Question: How can we get Stalin to invade Poland? And what about technology? Specifically space-development.
 

MrHola

Banned
8 November, 1938

Georg Esler* nervously clutched the “purse gun” which was concealed in an orthopedic cast around his lower right arm. Adolf Hitler was standing on a stage, delivering his annual speech on the anniversary about the failed Beer Hall Putsch. The cries of the cheering crowd made it difficult for him to concentrate. When Hitler was nearing the end of his speech, Esler mumbled a prayer and raised the cast at Hitler and fired.

The Fuhrer clutched his chest with both hands and fell flat on his back. The crowd cried out and scattered in all directions, exposing Esler to keen-eyed guard who aimed his rifle at the assassin and fired.

*The POD is that Esler realises sooner that Hitler must be dealt with and decides to kill him on November 8 in Munich. I admit, the above may be abit implausible. Any advice? Should I continue this?
 
You mean Georg Elser?

And if Göring really stays Führer, don't expect him to win the war. Remember him saying: "If only one enemy plane enters German air, you can call me Herr Meier!". Right.
 
You mean Georg Elser?

And if Göring really stays Führer, don't expect him to win the war. Remember him saying: "If only one enemy plane enters German air, you can call me Herr Meier!". Right.

Yeah, but on the other hand, he'd be too lazy to interfere in the actual military conduct of the war at anything like the same level as OTL Hitler did. Imagine the Eastern Front left to the Generals... not pretty...
 
Yeah, but on the other hand, he'd be too lazy to interfere in the actual military conduct of the war at anything like the same level as OTL Hitler did. Imagine the Eastern Front left to the Generals... not pretty...

On the other hand might Goering interfere more because of him wanting the Luftwaffe to be the decisive factor in a German victory?
 
Yeah, but on the other hand, he'd be too lazy to interfere in the actual military conduct of the war at anything like the same level as OTL Hitler did. Imagine the Eastern Front left to the Generals... not pretty...

Yeah. That could get very ugly. I know that Hitler's senior commanders asked for freedom of maneuver after D-Day and considering that Rommel was in charge of theatre operations, he could have made things VERY unpleasant for the Allies.
 

MrHola

Banned
And what about the Jews? I doubt that Goering would decide to exterminate all of them. What do you think?
 
On the other hand might Goering interfere more because of him wanting the Luftwaffe to be the decisive factor in a German victory?

Why would he want that if he was the Führer? IOTL, he favoured the air arm just because it gave him personally (as its commander) prestige in Hitler's eyes. With himself as the leader, that'd be pretty much irrelevant.
 
And what about the Jews? I doubt that Goering would decide to exterminate all of them. What do you think?

If France and Britain are allies, there's a chance for the Madagascar Plan. Or perhaps he'll just leave them alone (although not stop the other Nazi retards from pestering them); he never struck me as that big on ideology.
 
Could Goering control Himmler and the others?

Well, in OTL, he was always Hitler's link to the traditional elites...might he start relying on them more to stymie Himmler? I'm not really sure what Goerring would do if he was in the driver's seat. I've always kind of seen him as something of a buffoon, but, that could be largely because he was playing politics with his military portfolio. As another poster (Admiral Canaris?) mentioned, he wouldn't bother if he was Fuhrer. He'd definitely be a better choice, from the German POV, than Himmler. Heinie was even nuttier than Hitler about the Untermentschen crap.
 
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