UN takes action for American defiance

That's even if you suppose the UN has any power to act against the US. The UN's power is basically the US armed forces, and European money. If they really had too, the europeans could use their military power, too, wich, even if weak complared to the US, is strong compared with most other nations.
The US, for obvious reasons, is out, and the EU, whatener some UN wacko said, would not turn agaisnt the US, much less for some muslim country, even if they had millions demonstrating on the streets. Few of those demonstrators would be actually serious if their nation had to act beyond the media, and the fact is, Europeans, deep down, with their massive muslin districts causing powers in their mayor cities, simply do not trust muslims -it is not pollitically correct to say so, but also true.
True indeed, I can of course only speak for myself but I despises UN, it is a playground for dictators and religious extremists, you remember when
their "human rights council" proclaimed that it is forbidden to criticise islam. I am surprised that the US has not withdrawn from that fora years ago because the constant whining against it that takes place there.
 

Caspian

Banned
I am surprised that the US has not withdrawn from that fora years ago because the constant whining against it that takes place there.

It's because we have the veto. Virtually nothing of any importance can get through if the US is opposed to it.

As for whining, those resolutions are generally meaningless - at worst they're a little annoying, and mostly not even that. As long as the US has the veto power, I (being American) couldn't care less if the General Assembly passes "we hate the US" resolutions daily, because we have actual power.

The UN has its uses, though they're mostly symbolic. Still, symbolic power has its uses.

EDIT: for typos.
 
what you're looking for here isn't political or military action from the UN, the only way you are gonna get the US to stop something is through economics, so perhaps if you get the oil rich nations of the middle east cut off oil from the US (although you'd need to get rid of the saudi royal family for that), or perhaps get the Chinese to use their backing of US debt as pressure, however the chinese option is less likely since they would effectively kill their primary market for all those cheap manufactured goods they make over there. So pretty much your best POd would be some major international incident in the middle east priod to 2003, prehaps muslim extremists assasinate the Saudi royal family, the US overreacts militarily in some way and pisses off OPEC, then you might get a situation in which the oil rich nations of the middle east pull a monroe doctrine type thing with the middle east and threaten to cut off oil to the US if they don't stay out of Iraq, now that might stop dubyah in his tracks.
 
hhahhahahhahahhahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahhahahahahhahahah
Okay I'm done the UN doing shit what world do you live in Security Council Permenant = Veto
the UN can do absolutely a grand total of... drum roll please... jack shit :D
Sorry very few people would be willing to go along, yeah the US is considered an Asshole by a number of people but ya know there is profit involved.
 

Neroon

Banned
Given that we pretty much agree on 2 points:
1. The US can veto any such measure.
2. The Conservatives in the US would actually love for the UN to kick them out.

What about this scenario: Some coalition of 3rd world dictators and European far-lefties introduce a motion to expell the US, which everyone expects to become just another publicity stunt by them which then ends up being vetoed by the US. Only the Republican anti-UN administration in the White House at that moment simply has their ambassador abstain instead.
Now if they don't use their veto it'll reduce the propaganda value on the home front, but it'll still be enough of a slap in the face that i doubt any Democrat could run on a "lets come crawling back to the UN and beg for re-admission" platform, meaning the U.S. stays out for the forseeable future.
 

Caspian

Banned
what you're looking for here isn't political or military action from the UN, the only way you are gonna get the US to stop something is through economics, so perhaps if you get the oil rich nations of the middle east cut off oil from the US (although you'd need to get rid of the saudi royal family for that), or perhaps get the Chinese to use their backing of US debt as pressure, however the chinese option is less likely since they would effectively kill their primary market for all those cheap manufactured goods they make over there. So pretty much your best POd would be some major international incident in the middle east priod to 2003, prehaps muslim extremists assasinate the Saudi royal family, the US overreacts militarily in some way and pisses off OPEC, then you might get a situation in which the oil rich nations of the middle east pull a monroe doctrine type thing with the middle east and threaten to cut off oil to the US if they don't stay out of Iraq, now that might stop dubyah in his tracks.

Well, the US imports more oil from Canada than any other country, with Mexico and Venezuela in the #3 and #4 spots. It'd be a nasty shock, but the US could weather it, and the oil-rich middle eastern nations would suffer far worse than we could.
 

Caspian

Banned
2. The Conservatives in the US would actually love for the UN to kick them out.

Honestly, I doubt this. There are some people who do, but they're quite marginal from what I've seen - Constitution Party supporters and the like. The GOP mainstream, though, wouldn't actually be enthralled by UN expulsion, I don't believe.
 

boredatwork

Banned
In addition to the impact of lost US funding, consider the number of countries and NGOs who view the UN largely or wholly as a means of hampering and/or hectoring the US. Consider further the number of third world dictators who view the UN as an excuse for cushy shopping and another means of guilt-tripping money from gullible foreigners.

Take away the US involvement, take away the cushy NYC locale, and interest begins to drop. The benefits of UN involvement would decrease, while the costs of participation would increase (to make up for the loss of US funding, if for no other reason).

There will still be participation, no doubt, but the long term prognosis would be even worse than otherwise.

After all, take the US off the table - what are the chances of the UN 'taking action' against Chinese, EU, Indian, or Russian defiance?

Zippidy-do-dah.
 
In addition to the impact of lost US funding, consider the number of countries and NGOs who view the UN largely or wholly as a means of hampering and/or hectoring the US. Consider further the number of third world dictators who view the UN as an excuse for cushy shopping and another means of guilt-tripping money from gullible foreigners.

Take away the US involvement, take away the cushy NYC locale, and interest begins to drop. The benefits of UN involvement would decrease, while the costs of participation would increase (to make up for the loss of US funding, if for no other reason).

There will still be participation, no doubt, but the long term prognosis would be even worse than otherwise.

After all, take the US off the table - what are the chances of the UN 'taking action' against Chinese, EU, Indian, or Russian defiance?

Zippidy-do-dah.
This is very good point.
 

boredatwork

Banned
I haven't seen many pics of your dog of late, bored at work. Is he doing fine?

very well, and at the same time, very poorly.

His uveitis (increase in fluid pressure within the eyes) continues with periodic spikes, as the vets have not determined the cause of the underlying inflamation. We have moved on to progressively more powerful medicine to address the issue, and will likely need to move to laser cauterization of portions of the cilia with the next spike. - That's the very poorly part.:mad:

The very well? The rest of him is healthy and happy as can be. Not even a sniffle. He's 103 pounds, and regularly pulls me, my wife, and the couch across the basement floor during games of 'tug'.:eek:

Sadly, we have a four storey town house, so if he does go blind, we are unsure if we will be able to care for him. The likely long term prognosis is that we will have to put him to sleep with a year or two, if we're lucky. Oh, and my mom is now too weak to continue with the clinical trial for her lymphoma, so my dad is taking her home to die.:(

So, how is your new year going? :rolleyes:

Sorry to vent, it has been a very annoying few weeks.
 

TelClaven

Banned
Oh man, that's about the most fucked up thing I've read this week. I'm so sorry dude. I hope you can find a cure for your dog. I couldn't imagine having to put mine to sleep.
Shit, and I just finished reading Marley and Me and am now misty eyed.
 
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