Ulster:Europe's Vietnam

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Great Britain the island! The island! THE ISLAND!:mad:

In terms of citizenship that's irrelevant - the British Passport states that the holder is a citizen of "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Advising citizens of "Great Britain" to leave Northern Ireland is like the US Government advising citizens of the United States to leave Hawaii.


Cheers,
Nigel.
 
More precisely it's like the USA deciding not to combat a Hispanic insurrection in California by withdrawing all the WASP citizens.

Ain't going to happen.

What might happen is that the UK government tries to let the UN do the policing of NI but no way are the "British / Unionist" side going to be evacuated, even in part.
 
While this timeline seems to be based on an absolutely fundamental misunderstanding of the conflict in Northern Ireland, the horrified reaction of British posters to citizens in Northen Ireland being discriminated against and not protected is a little funny.

Although contrary to the implication of the title you're far more likely to see a short vicious campaign of ethnic cleansing rather than a protracted civil war.
 
Wow. I'm rather stunned. I didn't expect this level of response. While I'm grateful for the replies I have to take umbrage at some comments

Lost Freeway. I disagree with you saying my post was stupid. A little misguided but certainly not stupid. No government in their right mind would abandon 1.6 million of their citizens.

Asp is correct in guessing my intentions. I was planning the TL on the basis that the collapse of the executive would lead to increased resentment to the British that they failed/were unable to stop the strikes. A BBC documentary in 2004 stated that Rees was unable to rely on the RUC to deal with the strikes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgQSjl2d0CM (28:45 to 29:37)

Another basis was the British Government's own feelings on the matter:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/releases/2005/nyo/ni.htm

I think I the best thing I can do is to end this TL here and now before it causes tempers to fray and the mods to step it. Many thanks for the comments.
 
The problems with increased resentment to the British is that everyone is British ( legally at least). Trying to create a divide between Northern Ireland British and mainland British is confusing everyone.

Unless you are writing from a strictly extreme Nationalist mindset which will annoy a lot of people ( and not just Unionists!)
 
I'm not sure how you differentiate the people from England/Wales/Scotland from the locals, given they all have the same citizenship. Not to mention, many of the unionists have been in Northern Ireland for generations - why do they have to leave their homeland?

It seems to be cultural ignorance on behalf of the OP and those supporting the view, i'd suspect that most if not all the people pointing out how ludicrous the premise is are UK and/or Irsish residents or if not have closer links to the UK and Ireland than the plastic Paddies who drive the view of Ireland in the US ...
 
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Lost Freeway. I disagree with you saying my post was stupid. A little misguided but certainly not stupid. No government in their right mind would abandon 1.6 million of their citizens.
Mind pointing out where I said that? Because I don't remember. :confused:
 
While this timeline seems to be based on an absolutely fundamental misunderstanding of the conflict in Northern Ireland, the horrified reaction of British posters to citizens in Northen Ireland being discriminated against and not protected is a little funny.

Following the Birmingham Pub Bombings, the English Catholic school I attended received bomb warnings and other threats. So why do you think that it's funny that I'm horrified about discrimination ?

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
Following the Birmingham Pub Bombings, the English Catholic school I attended received bomb warnings and other threats. So why do you think that it's funny that I'm horrified about discrimination ?

Cheers,
Nigel.

The rightful distaste wasn't what I found funny. However, while they are right about it being unlikely, saying its because Britain wouldn't discriminate against British citizens in the context of a discussion on Northern Ireland is a bit ironic.
 
The rightful distaste wasn't what I found funny. However, while they are right about it being unlikely, saying its because Britain wouldn't discriminate against British citizens in the context of a discussion on Northern Ireland is a bit ironic.

That's a little like saying it's "funny" a US citizen would say it's unlikely laws would be reinstituted enforcing segregation in the US in the 70s.

Yes, black people in the US were discriminated against. People are still able to say the level of discrimination being proposed as plausible is in fact ludicrous.

Britain behaved poorly in NI. People were discriminated against in NI. The idea of Britain withdrawing all citizens of England, Scotland and Wales and leaving loyalists to their fate is absolutely risible.
 
I think I the best thing I can do is to end this TL here and now before it causes tempers to fray and the mods to step it. Many thanks for the comments.

:( why not keep it going even if you have to move it to ASB or WF would be fun to read even if we wouldn't want to live in that world (but that's the same with many of the WWIII time lines).

My main questions would be who would dare send peacekeepers ?
That and the massive imbalance in force available to the IRA and UDR+.
 
As I said the only part which is borderline ASB is the separation of Great Britain from Northern Ireland citzenship,

Labour cutting and running with the army and handing over Ulster to the UN peacekeepers is unlikely but certainly not ASB - it was talked about as an option in RL after all.
 
:( why not keep it going even if you have to move it to ASB or WF would be fun to read even if we wouldn't want to live in that world (but that's the same with many of the WWIII time lines).

My main questions would be who would dare send peacekeepers ?
That and the massive imbalance in force available to the IRA and UDR+.

more ignorance i see

PIRA is a terrorist organisation

the UDR is a legally constituted regiment of the British Army
 
A lot of threads concerning this neck o'the woods are generally by those who a ignorant (in the correct sense of the word) or are bias in either direction. There is still a lot of hatred and resentment, on both sides of the community. There has, and continues to be more wrong done than good. We are a very small community, with a large section who have lost loved ones, seen things, know things and remember things that perhaps we shouldn't. The difference between here and other conflicts is the people involved are generally on first name terms with their 'enemy'. That is perhaps the most difficult thing for an outsider to get their heads around, no matter how well intentioned they are.
 
more ignorance i see

PIRA is a terrorist organisation

the UDR is a legally constituted regiment of the British Army

And I'm sure they would have discharged their duty in a restrained and even handed manner had the British government disengaged in NI.:rolleyes:
 
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Given Mr Wilson didn't have a majority in at the POD, I would expect the Government to last about 12 hours after the announcement even if it is just for the option of withdrawing the army.
 
Given Mr Wilson didn't have a majority in at the POD, I would expect the Government to last about 12 hours after the announcement even if it is just for the option of withdrawing the army.

Very true.

But a new government would take time to put into place during which all kinds of chaos would ensue. And if the PoD slipped to October they just might be able to hang on.
 
The 74 election gives 301 labour 297 Con 14 Lib 7 Each Ulster Unionist and SNP, 3 vanguard Unionist, 2 Plaid, 1 each DUP and independent labour.

Even the suggestion of withdrawing gives the Conservatives and Unionists 308, 10 short of an absolute majority and everyone in the cabinet knows it.

Con had the largest single vote in the election and the only reason they have not formed the government is because the Unionists do not support them over Sunningdale.


They, and the UN also know that the UK has a veto in the UN.


And its the UK, a new Government would be formed in about 20 minutes.


Its not even ASB.
 

CalBear

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I have to say that some of the criticism here was a bit on the needlessly harsh side.
 
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