UK Nuclear Targets in 1982.

So, I didn't get you! Dam!:p

I'll put up the list of some possible alternative targets of a more minor or less important nature, and I bet your on that one!

i'll see your best shot and raise you a 'nee-nah'

in the the end you did'nt really get any closer than Newcastle Airport in p1, and Birtley in the final phase

i might get a bit of fall-out, but normal prevailing winds are west to east which would be the wrong direction to get me.

Also, in this scenario i can see the surviving government re-opening the steelworks that it closed in my town in 1980, and the railway is still there as it was'nt ripped up until 1983

nuclear war, it aint all bad

;-)
 
And even then the electrical network is a GRID so take out one part and whats left can still allow what remains to work to an extent. Whats more national grid had apparently had plans to patch repairs on what was left after a strike.
If the Soviet Union opt for a "counter industry" strategy then they might very well target refineries etc. But if they opt for a "counter strike" approach and simply want to destroy the UKs nuclear capabilities, it makes no sense to target industry. They don't have enough warheads to do both at the same time with any redundance.

Targetting industries wholesale implies that one wants to prevent you from having the means to wage a long term war. It implies a scenario where conventional warfare carries on post nuclear strike with the objective of occupying the opponent. Even then, surely you would want to have something left to occupy, strip bare and ship to the motherland for reconstruction purposes.
Which is of course why you destroy not the factories, but rather the power supplies they depend upon. :D

In all seriousness, given a choice between the short-war strategy of targeting nuclear weapons capability, and the long-war strategy of targeting industry, failure to deal with the nuclear weapons guarantees a short war that you lose.

It might sound daft but the reason why the Soviets were so keen on civil defense and protecting industrial facilities is that they envisioned a conventional war scenario post strike.
The Soviet view of WW3 seems to have been very different than the Western view. We envisaged a short conventional phase leading to a nuclear spasm and then counting the cost. They envisaged going nuclear early and then prolonged broken-backed warfare. The only thing we can be sure of is that it would have been really messy.

I'm not sure I've ever seen the Soviet view of WW3 presented in a TL. All the WW3 scenarios I've seen seem to go for the war spasm or for avoiding nuclear use altogether.
 
PRIORITY 1 TARGETS

Britain 1.png
 
Its your alternate history indeed and feel free to write whatever you want, I won't challenge your right to free expression.

My point is more that alternate history is not a "free for all" where one can throw all constraints to the wind and write about whatever they want. You can't handwave away constraints like the number of warheads the SU has at its disposal, how many missiles, planes etc they have that they can deliver these warheads. How many targets they have to strike outside of the UK, chiefly in the US and in other Western allies. If the SU strikes the UK with 1000Mt instead of 200Mt then that's 800Mts that are used elsewhere and this can make a big difference in terms of who will be better off.

Your efforts to carefully lay out targets etc is commendable. I personally think that the SU doesn't have enough warheads to target every single major industrial facility in the West. There're simply too many of them around, just like there are too many missile silos and airbases too. It's an either or situation I think. Either you destroy strike/military capabilities or you destroy industrial facilities.

A thing that irritates me whenever nuclear war scenarios are mentionned is that a large chunk of people start thinking irrationally. Instead of carefully plotting targets and calculating consequences in terms of what's gone but also what's left. People just simply say "it'll be the end of the world" and bury their heads in the sand.

I'll never say that a nuclear war is a nice scenario. But I'll also say that the destructive capabilities of nuclear weapon are somewhat over-estimated. Destroying physical infrastructure like railways is very difficult and requires ground burst. There are also a lot of workshops and smaller industrial facilities located in smaller towns and cities.

This link makes for an interesting reading on what an attacks means. And even then I disagree with the assertion that "B country" will be starved of ressources like electricity or gasoline. Demand will drop post strike.
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/off-topic-31/nuclear-warfare-101-wall-of-text-alert-6857/

Now keep writing and I look forward to see what happens post strike in your scenario.

Thanks for feedback. I agree that just firing missiles at a number of cities is not how nuclear exchange would happen. I've tried to plan out a priority list, and therefore have taken out command and strike back facilities as a priority. I suppose once you pass priority 1, then its open to debate as to how far down the list of lesser priorities are actually targeted. The mix of low and high yield bombs also make this more realistic. You simply don't need to drop a 1 megaton bomb on a remote airbase when a battlefield device would suffice.

I'm gonna post some more maps, and some more detail from the original War Plan book in due course. The maps are hard to produce but I do like the effect!
 
PRIORITY 1, 2 AND 3 TARGETS


So the trick seems to be live in the Highlands, or NE England?

Could you post the Priroity 2 and 3 maps separate of the other 2 bits please?

Also do you have a 'non-nuclear' priority map- the sort of places that would be taken out by conventional firepower before nukes where used?
 
So the trick seems to be live in the Highlands, or NE England?

Could you post the Priroity 2 and 3 maps separate of the other 2 bits please?

Also do you have a 'non-nuclear' priority map- the sort of places that would be taken out by conventional firepower before nukes where used?

Or East Sussex!

I don't have a non-nuclear priority list, but I would imagine it would be a fair mix of the above minus the nuclear strike-back facilities.

I will have a look at producing separate priority maps, but its a fair old job, and I have other ideas for the thread. There will be 2 more maps to come though.
 
Extracts from the War Diary of Warwickshire County. (Square Leg exercise)

3Rd October 1982
D+1
Daily food requirements – 680,700 rations.
18,000 people (in refugee camps) suffering third degree burns.
Isolated reports of refugees leaving West Midlands area

D+3
Casualty aid points swamped.
Hospitals and improvised hospitals full.
Decision taken to conserve police strength with a view to deployment of police support units later.

D+4
Commence mass advice to achieve public order.
Reappraise triage.
Request medical aid from military.

D+5
Establish additional casualty aid points close to existing where possible.
Commit to home nursing casualties who will probably die.
Commence grave digging operations.
Remove dead from casualty aid points.
Remove dead from damaged areas as radiation levels permit.
Fire situation in county under control.

D+6
Identifying rationing levels of food and water.
Identify additional rationing requirements of workers.
Flow of refugees from West Midlands is indicated: 31,000 to North Warwickshire, 12,000 to South Warwickshire.

D+8
Casualty figures in Rugby area is indicated – 30,000 plus. Estimate Nuneaton area 17,000 plus.
Large numbers of persons suffering first stages of radiation sickness.
Arrange for establishment of decontamination units.
Consider variations of law – liaise with police.

D+9
Estimate 100,000 plus refugees from West Midlands, most injured, shocked, irradiated.
Consider disinfection in Rugby / Coventry area to avert disease.
Liaise with military for aircraft for spraying.
Control of refuges in the west of the county impossible at this stage.
Advise public on measures being taken to alleviate rioting and looting.
Produce advice to encourage ‘good neighbourly behaviour’ towards refugees.
Advise public with regard to disposal of dead bodies.
Advise populace not to leave their areas.

D+10
Numbers increasing at casualty aid points, priority being given to saveable under 30s.
Anticipate refugee figures to be 200,000 plus.
Further request to SRHQ for additional food.
SRHQ directive received – conserve fuel.

D+11
Arrange for collection of food at buffer depots.
Liaise with police and military for convoy guards.
Food to be held and guarded in district stores.
Deaths becoming a serious problem.
Liaise with Transport and Works for speedier removal of bodies from casualty aid points.
Advise public on action to be taken against looting, particularly theft of food.
Call for volunteers to assist with transport and works tasks.

D+12
Notification form SRHQ: 25% of food requirements for refugees to come from local buffer depots.
Police support units established and deployed to areas where refugees are known to be located.
Consider establishment of interim police controls in known trouble areas.

D+13
Feeding to commence at 1800 hours. Calorific content of meals will be 600 and 1 pint of water (non workers), 800 and 2 pints of water (workers).
Meals provided for infant feeding totally inadequate, request additional supplies.
Known casualty figures – 37,000, seriously injured – 67,000.
Radiation sickness entering third stage.
Disease control absolute priority.
All essential service routes cleared.
Identify and prepare additional burial resources.
Advise public on location and times feeding centres will be open, safe routes to them, and emphasise subsistence level of feeding in operation.
 
Extracts from the War Diary of Gloucestershire County Military Liaison.
Request to military and response.

D+14
R: Request air recon at Little Rissington food depot.
M: No response

R: Provide armed troops to assist police at 10 locations on M5 motorway.
M: Thirty men deployed.

R: Provide coils of barbed wire.
M: Barbed wire requested.

R: Provide armed troops to assist police at Gloucester to quell disturbance involving 8,000 persons
M: 25 troops sent

R: Provide armed troops to assist police at Gloucester to guard a food warehouse at Hare Lane.
M: 25 troops dispatched.

R: Provide ambulances, trained first aid personal and medical supplies.
M: Non available. Some vehicles and drivers only.

R: Provide armed troops to assist police with law and order problems at Cirencester, Cinderford, Lyndley and Newham.
M: 30 men sent to Cirencester. Due to radiation hazard, not considered effective to send armed parties into other areas at this time.

R: Provide armed guards to secure MAFF warehouse.
M: County military HQ requested AFHQ 7 to provide assistance from east of the county due to radiation levels.

D+15
R: Provide assistance to police at Gloucester to deal with law and order problems.
M: 15 men from Hare Lane detailed for this task.

R: Secure and guard a food warehouse at Cirencester.
M: 20 armed men dispatched from Innsworth.

R: Provide guards at 12 food supply and cooking centres throughout the county. Provide escorts for 10 food supply vehicles.
M: 5 armed guards provided at each location. 2 armed guards provided for each vehicle.

R: Assist police to prevent hostile crowd gaining access to Gloucester District Wartime HQ.
M: 20 armed men made available.

R: Assist police at GCHQ which is under attack from looters and refugees.
M: 2 mechanised platoons dispatched.

R: Accommodate 5,000 homeless at RAF Innsworth.
M: Cannot accommodate at RAF Innsworth, but could take 4,200 at RAF Quedgly. Vehicles available at Ashchurch but no drivers or fuel.

R: Provide hygiene and sanitation teams and equipment at Cheltenham. Provide rodenticides and disinfectants.
M: Unable to assist.

R: Provide security patrols and barbed wire at special rest centre at Stroud for suspected disease carrying refugees.
M: 2 platoons dispatched to Stroud. No stocks of barbed wire.

R: Provide assistance to Minister of Agriculture officers who have been prevented by a hostile crowd from arranging the despatch of food from a market garden.
M: Wessex helicopter and 12 soldiers sent to scene.
 
Going by how many red dots you've got over Merseyside, there's no way that one year old me is getting out of this alive...
 
PRIORITY 1, 2 AND 3 TARGETS


This is bad, but at least some cities and industrial capacity remains intact. Chief of which is Swansea and Port Talbot, this includes Llandarcy refinery (closed in 1998) and the steelworks.
The Milford Haven & Pembroke refineries are also intact.

Wales alone can now supply the UK entire refined petroleum needs if some imports can be made. If Sullom Voe is still intact in the Shetlands, tankers to Wales will do. But by the look of its the North Sea pipeline system arrivals points in the UK are not too damaged.

Even with all that megatonnage the UK is far from destroyed still ...

PRIORITY TARGETS 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, AND 6

Thank god the Soviets don't have enough nukes to carpet everyone like that. Since this scenario is basically:

Almost Game over ...

Apart from Kent and the Pennies/Borders the UK is wrecked. The only good news is that both parts can feed themselves as they're agricultural. Both also have access to some coal mines.

Aim to save 10M people maximum here but even this might be a stretch ...
 
[FONT=&quot]I appreciate all the feedback on this and have enjoyed producing the maps, which I hope people will find interesting.

I'm now taking this thread into a whole new area with snapshots throughout the attack.

My inspiration is James Herbert - Domain, but all writing is original.

I'm also inspired by the excellent thread here:[/FONT]
https://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...d.php?t=164027.

Hope you enjoy the first tale.
 
Panic on the streets of London,
Panic on the streets of Birmingham,
And I wonder to myself,
Would life ever be sane again?

“Oh well, there would be another”, he thought.

10 minutes earlier, Asif had been walking along Aldgate High Street. His shift had just started and as usual he was trying to make an effort to be both pleasant and authoritive at the same time to the people he passed, a mix of late night workers, some party goers and even a smattering of shoppers he thought. He loved this patch, always reasonably quiet with not a lot going on. For the 20th time in his career (well 4 months now!), he wondered how he ended up with such a lucrative beat. City of London! Not bad for a 24 year old new boy! Possibly something to do with his uncle, but he did hope it was on merit alone. “We don’t want too many of your lot” his Sergeant had told him on his first day, “don’t mind a couple of you for appearance sake, but we don’t want you taking over, now do we” he had said with a grin that somehow implied that Asif was part of the joke. He’d considered punching him in the face, but thought it might end his career prematurely. It probably was his uncle anyway, but who cares. The important thing was that he loved his patch.

“Now what the fuck is he doing now?” He strode ahead, taking long stride as he’d been instructed. “Would you piss in your own front door? No? Well don’t do it hear then!” The young man, in his cheap suit, probably some junior clerk after his first office party, stared at him bleary eyed. “Sorry Ossifer”. Dick Head. He didn’t need this. With one hand on the man’s collar and the other reaching for his notebook, he briefly considered just ticking him off and sending him home. The vomit that splattered his shiny black shoes changed that. “You…you little shit, are coming to the station, what do you think you’re….”

Funny, I’ve never noticed them before thought Asif. What a funny place to put an alarm, was his second thought. The siren was blaring its up and down rhythmic warning in a way that seemed very familiar to Asif. It’s a World War 2 siren surely? Or is it a fire alarm? He looked at the metallic casing as though it could somehow provide him with the answer. Ok, remember your training, assess the situation and prioritise actions!

The first shove was followed by an apology, the second wasn’t. “Oi”! It wasn’t this busy before, but people were now barging past him, and seemed to be heading into the tube station. “Ok, calm down, take it easy”. He wanted to sound authoritive, like his uncle, but his voice had somehow become way too high pitched for anyone to take him seriously. Some looked at him for reassurance, the blue uniform still getting respect even in this day and age. He suspected however that his height, and worse, his skin colour cancelled the blue out.

“Oi” His helmet now lay a few feet from him as the idiot with the massive rucksack strapped to his back gave him an apologetic glance before continuing in his rush for the stairs. “Fucking tourists” he thought “and Swedish at that”. Asif stooped to pick up the errant helmet and was instantly pushed forward sprawling on hands and knees. “Right, that’s it!” His hands were scuffed, and “oh shit” a nice hole at the knee in his trouser. He could just see his Sergeants gleeful face.

Straightening up, “now, back off! Take it slow” What’s the point, no-ones listening. Oh Christ, they’re screaming. A few strides towards the station door showed the cause. People were literally trampling each other to get inside. There was a woman (she looks Caribbean to me, but maybe African, they all look the same) was screaming, the wires from her Walkman pulled tight around her neck. He couldn’t help her because his sight was now on the other blue uniformed figure, where the hell had he come from, lying still on the floor with the black woman's knee across his throat, squeezing the life from his body. “Ok, back up, back up”.

He thought later, in his few moments alive, that he’d been quite lucky he was facing east, as at least he still had his eyesight. He didn’t have his hearing though, as the drums in booth ears had been ruptured in an instant. How long had he been out? What had I been doing, and how did I get hear? These thoughts were processing in his confused mind at the same time that his eyes were subconsciously counting. 2 of them looked frighteningly close. The other 3…another fucking 3…seemed a little more off towards the west. “Seriously?” he thought. The dreaded hated symbol. The mushroom cloud right here in London, and 5 of them! 5! He knew before thinking about it, that he couldn’t move. He knew before checking that both legs were smashed, and he knew without looking that the metal spike pinning his right shoulder to the wall had no business being there. He could turn his head freely to his left, (At least I haven’t a broken neck) and came face the face with the pissing puker. He only recognised him on account of the sick on his chin and shirt collar, but oh God, his eyes were just a red mess.

Before he could even think about thinking the words “Oh well, there would be another”, PC Asif Ismail, the proud son of a proud mother, if not the reluctant nephew of a corrupt uncle, had vaporised into nothing as the next missile to hit London detonated over Threadneedle Street.
 
Nick NWO,

Pity you didn't carry on with the snapshots.

Would love to read more, if you continued. You seem to have a gift

Thanks!
I moved onto new things and forgot all about this!
Am thinking about a different subject altogether and doing a bit of a snapshot type commentary.
I'll post my first one later. It will be called "Lancashire Life"
Nick
 
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