UK including France

Mary Queen of Scots was married to Francis II of France, but he died when he was sixteen. If he'd lived, and they'd had a child, that child would have ruled England, Scotland and France when Elizabeth I died.
What do you think would have been the result of this?
 
It wouldn't have happened without a war or two.

Welcome the War of the English Succession 1603 to 16???

There is also a strong likelihood that Mary would have been deposed by the Scots in that timeline.

Few thoughts:

1) To devout Roman Catholics - on the death of Mary Tudor - the legal heir to the English throne was Mary Stuart not the bastard Elizabeth.
Luckily for Elizabeth when Henri II of France died, she had Spanish support who had no wish to see an Anglo French Union under Mary and Francis II - the latters death helped matters of course.

2) Assuming a surviving Francis II - then the pressure on Elizabeth to marry and produce a Protestant heir increases considerably in the 1560s - it also means much more prominance to the alternate heirs - Lady Catherine and Mary Grey, the Countess of Derby and Lady Margaret Douglas and her sons Lord Darnley and Charles Stuart.

3) Elizabeth and her council have an opt out - the Final Henrician Act of Succession which in default of Elizabeth and her issue left the throne to the heirs of the King's nieces in preference to the Scots line.

4) With the death of Mary of Guise control in Scotland rests with the Lords of the Congregation - reformist peers with close ties to the English court and council. In OTL Elizabeth did offer lukewarm support to them in opposition to French Catholic dominance via Mary of Guise but would never have backed them in open rebellion however in a surviving Franco Scots alliance then she may well encourage and support (certainly her council would) for a rising against their Foreign catholic monarch - they have two alternate candidates the Earl of Lennox (married to Margaret Douglas and father of Darnley) and the Earl of Hamilton (who went mad eventually) - Hamilton's claim is the stronger.

Here's what i think will happen....

A surviving Mary and Francis means a French crown that takes a tougher approach to the french protestants - due to the significant influence of the Guise family.

The effect of that will almost certainly frighten the Scots into rebellion.

Elizabeth reluctant to marry and despite her dislike of her cousins - brings Catherine Grey (who in this scenario won't disgrace herself with Seymour) to court but to keep the young Lady Catherine on her toes she also brings Lady Margaret Douglas to court and plays the two ladies off against each other - preferring neither one to the other.

The council in private agree in the event of Elizabeth's death they will stick with the Henrician succession and crown the Protestant Catherine.

Through the 1560s Elizabeth offers support to the rebellious Scots who finally under Mary's half brother James Stewart proclaim Mary deposed.

Initially the Lords offer the vacant Scots crown to Elizabeth desperate for support against any French attack - she refuses but indicates her preference that Lennox be offered the crown - the Scots refuse and name James 2nd Earl of Arran King as James VI - he had already proposed that Elizabeth marry his son James but James was mentally ill and his health had broken down - Now the new Scots King will suggest Elizabeth marry his second son and ultimate heir John Hamilton (now Duke of Albany).

Elizabeth will refuse but she will offer John Hamilton the hand of Lady Catherine Grey at the Council's urging.

From there I suspect a loose Anglo-Scots alliance against France
Philip II of Spain will despite her heresy do all he can to ensure that Elizabeth remains on the English throne (as he did in OTL).

Wouldn't be surprised if several rebellions in Scotland as the Lords fight each other for influence and control - Hamilton will die in 1575 and they will proclaim his son James VII - he'll remain confined and they'll argue over who should be regent for James the Mad - his brother John will probably get it but doubt his survival will be a long one.

Given France's struggles in the late 16th century I would rule out war in the short term - particularly as Spain is likely to support England - but after 1580 to 90 I wouldn't rule it out.

I suspect a failed invasion at some point on behalf of the de jure Henri IX of England (son of Mary and Francis) against King James I of England (son of Catherine Grey and John Hamilton) who will also succeed his uncle as King James IX of Scotland in 1609, leading to the union of the crowns.
 
Mary Queen of Scots was married to Francis II of France, but he died when he was sixteen. If he'd lived, and they'd had a child, that child would have ruled England, Scotland and France when Elizabeth I died.
What do you think would have been the result of this?

If Francis II and Mary had a child, he will be the Dauphin and after the death of this father, the King of France, so Elizabeth will never make him his successor...

This child will be also the King of Scotland but how he will able to defend this title will be the good question...

If the french Wars of Religion can be butterflied, Elisabeth will not fight the Spanish Armada but some french-scottish invasion...
 
good date would probably post Battle of Hastings. Assimilate British Culture to that one more like France is your best bet. It's the only time I can think of when this could have happened. Make it so the 100 years war doesn't happen, or at best the House of Plantagenet emerges the victor and France/England is under the same King.

The problem for this is that you'll have so much to alter from points I can't even guess at.

· Scotland needs to broken and early into the war. (I am Scottish.)

· The war needs to end with the original claimants or at most second generation still alive. Anymore and the original cause for the war is just lost to history.

· Make Spain stay out of the war. - This is probably impossible as Spain was one of the biggest powers during this period and would not tolerate the Union of two other large powers.

· The Unions can't last.

If history of the UK has taught us anything the members of the union are far from unified. The only way to secure a solid unification in the future is to have both nations desire a return. Interwar between the two is fine, as long as an overwhelming acknowledgement that they are the same culture prevails.
 
How about a PoD of Henry VIII getting an anullment from the Pope and England remaining Catholic? It'd remove the Elizabeth problem.
Of course Protestant Scotland wouldn't like it, and Spain would probably interfere, so you'd have have a war between England and France/Scotland and Spain.
 
... so Elizabeth will never make him his successor...

This child will be also the King of Scotland but how he will able to defend this title will be the good question...

Have to agree, there is no way that Elizabeth will let a catholic follow her and she will spend all her later years (assuming that she didn't have children) looking for ways to legally disallow the sucession to Mary's child.

I agree that the future king of Scotland would have huge difficulties getting to Scotland. I can see the Spanish and English united to stop this (supported by the protestant Scots). Elizabeth would be committing regal suicide to allow him to rally support on her two nearest borders.
 
Have to agree, there is no way that Elizabeth will let a catholic follow her and she will spend all her later years (assuming that she didn't have children) looking for ways to legally disallow the sucession to Mary's child.

I agree that the future king of Scotland would have huge difficulties getting to Scotland. I can see the Spanish and English united to stop this (supported by the protestant Scots). Elizabeth would be committing regal suicide to allow him to rally support on her two nearest borders.

Like I said, if Henry VIII had been given an anullment and remained Catholic, this could work.
 
She didn't need to look for ways to legally disallow the succession to Mary or her heirs.
The 1543/4 succession act was still on the statute books at her accession in 1558 Elizabeth's lawful heir was Lady Frances Brandon and after her death Lady Catherine Grey.
I have no doubt that later Parliament would had it been required would have also given ELizabeth the same rights her father had been given to name an heir by letters patent or will in the absence of an heir of her body.


Have to agree, there is no way that Elizabeth will let a catholic follow her and she will spend all her later years (assuming that she didn't have children) looking for ways to legally disallow the sucession to Mary's child.

I agree that the future king of Scotland would have huge difficulties getting to Scotland. I can see the Spanish and English united to stop this (supported by the protestant Scots). Elizabeth would be committing regal suicide to allow him to rally support on her two nearest borders.
 
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