UK declares war on Argentina after Falklands invasion

Panhomo · Jul 7, 2016

Argentina invaded the archipelago without issuing an ultimatum or declaration of war. The british responded with military force, but also never issued a formal ultimatum or declaration of war. The argentinians had no formal bilateral alliances at the time. The British had several such, but chose not to make use of them.

Why exactly didn't the Thatcher administration issue an ultimatum or declaration of war? Could they have plausible done so? What would be the consequences if they had?

If the UK was formally in a defensive war would any of their allies have offered real or symbolic assistance?

pdf27 · Jul 7, 2016

Realistically, assistance from outside beyond that given in OTL (actually rather significant, from just about everywhere) would probably have been unwelcome. A great deal of the Falklands war was about the UK demonstrating it wasn't a spent power yet - that wouldn't have happened with help from outside.

Ryan · Jul 7, 2016

I could see the UK getting Argentina to give up claims to British territory in the peace treaty.

Hammerbolt · Jul 7, 2016

Panhomo said:
If the UK was formally in a defensive war would any of their allies have offered real or symbolic assistance?

Check this article on wikipedia. There was some assistance to the UK.

Panhomo · Jul 7, 2016

pdf27 said:
Realistically, assistance from outside beyond that given in OTL (actually rather significant, from just about everywhere) would probably have been unwelcome. A great deal of the Falklands war was about the UK demonstrating it wasn't a spent power yet - that wouldn't have happened with help from outside.

I was wondering if something might happen like with Portugal in WWII. The portuguese might offer to honour their alliance with the UK by declaring war on Argentina, the british would thank them but decline.

riggerrob · Jul 7, 2016

Wondering what Britain would gain by invading mainland Argentina?
..... more bully beef than they could eat?
..... the remnants of a dysfunctional Latin-American dictatorship?
..... vineyards around Córdoba?

The cruelest reparations would involve leaving Peronists in charge.

Hammerbolt · Jul 7, 2016

Panhomo said:
I was wondering if something might happen like with Portugal in WWII. The portuguese might offer to honour their alliance with the UK by declaring war on Argentina, the british would thank them but decline.

As a portuguese citizen, I can tell you clearly: zero chance of that.

Panhomo · Jul 7, 2016

Hammerbolt said:
As a portuguese citizen, I can tell you clearly: zero chance of that.

Why do you say that? Salazar's government acknowledged their alliance with the british during WWII, only staying officially neutral to keep the Spanish neutral. I was under the assumption the portuguese were on better terms with the british in 1982 than in 1939.

Johnrankins · Jul 7, 2016

Panhomo said:
Why do you say that? Salazar's government acknowledged their alliance with the british during WWII, only staying officially neutral to keep the Spanish neutral. I was under the assumption the portuguese were on better terms with the british in 1982 than in 1939.

It was a minor war not in Portugal's own interest so why volunteer. Now if GB asked for it then there might be some discussion about it but a GB that asks help from Portugal looks weak.

Hammerbolt · Jul 8, 2016

Panhomo said:
Why do you say that? Salazar's government acknowledged their alliance with the british during WWII, only staying officially neutral to keep the Spanish neutral. I was under the assumption the portuguese were on better terms with the british in 1982 than in 1939.

Completely diferent situation. For starters, in 1982 we were still very much rebuilding the country after 50 years of dictatorship. Our economy was in a shambles, all our armed forces were decrepit and we had a new government almost every year. Between 1979 and 1985 we had 6. We could barelly get along internally, let alone offer any kind of assistance to anyone...

There was also the fact that the war was being presented by the left as another example of UK-based capitalistic imperialism (despite the fact that it was caused by a right-wing dictartorship...). Our far right, the PCP (a USSR-funded, supported and trained comunist party) was banging that drum. And, at that time, they had a lot of power here...

Nick P · Jul 8, 2016

Panhomo said:
If the UK was formally in a defensive war would any of their allies have offered real or symbolic assistance?

From reading GCHQ by Richard Aldrich. Lots of intelligence related stories going back 80 years, well worth the read.

Foreign help regarding the Falklands:

Portugal offered use of the Azores for refuelling under a treaty dating back to 1373.
Spain blocked a covert attempt by Argentine forces to sabotage ships in Gibraltar.
Dutch listening sites at Curacao and Eemnes (previously a US base) passed on intercepted diplomatic and maritime messages.
Germany also picked up and passed on Argentine signals. The code was of WW2 German origin, captured by the French and sold to Argentina....
France passed on signals intercepted at their spy base in French Guyana. They stopped a number of arms dealers who were selling to Argentina. French security forces blocked Exocet missile sales and told the RN how to spot and intercept them when inbound.
Norway picked up images and messages beamed down from newly launched Soviet satellites flying over the South Atlantic and passed them to the RN, helping us track the General Belgrano.

The Sierra Leone government allowed the troopship Canberra to restock and refuel in Freetown. This may have more to do with making money...

Chile secretly allowed British forces to use their bases and provided details of Argentine military forces. A Sea King helo crashlanded after dropping off an SBS force in Argentina, the crew were caught by Chile police and well-treated and sent home quite quickly. It is possible a few Nimrods flew from Chile on recon missions.

The US gave us new versions of the Sidewinder missile and lots of ammo delivered from NATO stocks in Europe to Ascension Island by Galaxy aircraft and plenty of intelligence. There was an offer of a full-size aircraft carrier if ours got sunk, more to do with the NATO role in reality. They also helped stall for time with the famous Haig negotiations.

New Zealand sent ships to take over the Persian Gulf patrol from RN ships which then sailed to the South Atlantic.

And this is just the stuff we know about....

Coulsdon Eagle · Jul 9, 2016

riggerrob said:
Wondering what Britain would gain by invading mainland Argentina?

Could we naturalise Lionel Messi?

Roland Traveler · Jul 9, 2016

Nick P said:
From reading GCHQ by Richard Aldrich. Lots of intelligence related stories going back 80 years, well worth the read.

Foreign help regarding the Falklands:

Portugal offered use of the Azores for refuelling under a treaty dating back to 1373.
Spain blocked a covert attempt by Argentine forces to sabotage ships in Gibraltar.
Dutch listening sites at Curacao and Eemnes (previously a US base) passed on intercepted diplomatic and maritime messages.
Germany also picked up and passed on Argentine signals. The code was of WW2 German origin, captured by the French and sold to Argentina....
France passed on signals intercepted at their spy base in French Guyana. They stopped a number of arms dealers who were selling to Argentina. French security forces blocked Exocet missile sales and told the RN how to spot and intercept them when inbound.
Norway picked up images and messages beamed down from newly launched Soviet satellites flying over the South Atlantic and passed them to the RN, helping us track the General Belgrano.

The Sierra Leone government allowed the troopship Canberra to restock and refuel in Freetown. This may have more to do with making money...

Chile secretly allowed British forces to use their bases and provided details of Argentine military forces. A Sea King helo crashlanded after dropping off an SBS force in Argentina, the crew were caught by Chile police and well-treated and sent home quite quickly. It is possible a few Nimrods flew from Chile on recon missions.

The US gave us new versions of the Sidewinder missile and lots of ammo delivered from NATO stocks in Europe to Ascension Island by Galaxy aircraft and plenty of intelligence. There was an offer of a full-size aircraft carrier if ours got sunk, more to do with the NATO role in reality. They also helped stall for time with the famous Haig negotiations.

New Zealand sent ships to take over the Persian Gulf patrol from RN ships which then sailed to the South Atlantic.

And this is just the stuff we know about....

But it was still UK forces that fought and won the war. All that aid may have helped, but in the eyes of the public, the UK won on its own strength.