U.S-British War in the 1840's?

In the OTL, during the James K. Polk administration the U.S and Britain hammered out the Treaty of Oregon in 1846. This treaty gave everything to the U.S south of the 49th parallel, Idaho, Oregon,Washington, parts of Montana, and Wyoming.

The Treaty ended the bickering over the Northwestern Claims by both sides, (1818-1846). Naturally, war between Britain and the U.S was avoided.

Lets, say that elements in Congress and the Polk Administration are not satisfied with the deal at the 49th parallel. Many of them wanted to "accquire the territory all the way to the 54th parallel..

Lets say Polk pursues this, and wants British Colombia. Is there a U.S-British war over the territory? Or will there be a diplomatic deal hammered out, the U.S pays Britain a tidy sum for the territory? If there is a war, would the Russians get involved or stay out of it??

Big thing here for me, if the U.S gets involved in a war with Britain over the Northwest, I am guessing the U.S-Mexican war butterflies away.. For a later date.

Ok folks, your thoughts?
 
Diplomatic matic deal will be hammered out

US is already involved with a dispute and impending war with Mexico. To get into a war with Britain, he would have to be on crack.

Polk never seriously wanted a war with Britain, his campaign goal was to settle the Oregon territory. Extending the 49th paralel actually was common sence. Britain could have pushed for the Columbia river as the boundary.

What if there was no Oregon treaty and the joint occupation went on. Could more and more American settlers that come into the entire area settle the question and want to become part of the USA?
 
A war would probably go very similar to 1812. A few border skirmishes along the US/Canada border, though the US invasion would probably be stopped, several naval battles resulting in British Naval supremecy, some hit and fade landings around major US cities, but the British unable to occupy and penetrate deep into the US and some skirmishes in Cascadia/Oregeon.

And after a year or two of this you'd likely see a peace treaty similar to the OTL Treaty.

This also would push back the Mexican war, maybe even the annexation of Texas if the war is before 1845. Heck, if Texas isn't annexed in 1845, you'd likely see it put off until 1848 at the earliest, especially since even Polk wouldn't want a two front war.

Heck, if British opinion is set against the US enough after such a war, you could very well see interference in Texas if it's still indepdent. Britain did have it's "informal empire" and could offer to absorb some of the Texan debt or invest in the region in exchange for the nation not joining the US, especially if the Lamar faction is running things.
 

Onyx

Banned
If Russia joined, and wins.
Then it would be cool seeing a Russian Alaska spanning from Bering to Vancouver to Seattle!
 
Diplomatic matic deal will be hammered out

US is already involved with a dispute and impending war with Mexico. To get into a war with Britain, he would have to be on crack.

Polk never seriously wanted a war with Britain, his campaign goal was to settle the Oregon territory. Extending the 49th paralel actually was common sence. Britain could have pushed for the Columbia river as the boundary.

What if there was no Oregon treaty and the joint occupation went on. Could more and more American settlers that come into the entire area settle the question and want to become part of the USA?

more and more settlers may come, but the HBC already had the common sense to direct most of them into the Willamette valley..so if anything... that is were they will go to protect the British claims on the Columbia River itself.
 
A war would probably go very similar to 1812. A few border skirmishes along the US/Canada border, though the US invasion would probably be stopped, several naval battles resulting in British Naval supremecy, some hit and fade landings around major US cities, but the British unable to occupy and penetrate deep into the US and some skirmishes in Cascadia/Oregeon.

And after a year or two of this you'd likely see a peace treaty similar to the OTL Treaty.

This also would push back the Mexican war, maybe even the annexation of Texas if the war is before 1845. Heck, if Texas isn't annexed in 1845, you'd likely see it put off until 1848 at the earliest, especially since even Polk wouldn't want a two front war.

Heck, if British opinion is set against the US enough after such a war, you could very well see interference in Texas if it's still indepdent. Britain did have it's "informal empire" and could offer to absorb some of the Texan debt or invest in the region in exchange for the nation not joining the US, especially if the Lamar faction is running things.

I would agree with all of this..with the exception that the Columbia river would probably have ended up as the border...which was essentially the Br. position from 1818 onward.

Portland ends up as the US NW entrepot from the Far east instead of Seattle, which along with the entire Puget Sound basin would end up an extension of British Columbia.

Really, both sides were really sensible in their decisions for the long haul on this matter as neither really wanted a replay of 1812-14. Which with push coming to shove...would end in a stalemate in the east most likely and British in control of the entirety of their claims in the NW and the US with a contested control over the rest. that would be being generous of course...

depends on how hard the shoving actually gets and how long it lasts and whether the empire feels a punitive measure is necessary. Given our experience they would probably want to avoid anything too onerous, but generally it would depend on the course of events.

Goes without saying the Polk is probably out on his butt. and he is really as far as US president's go far more intelligent than to let the shoving get out of hand or even occur, with an appreciation of just where the US stood relative to the Empire at this point.
 
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