Tyndale translates the Qu'ran into English

Deleted member 5719

Maybe strangely, given the general modern attitude about Islam and women, women in this time period might be especially attracted to it, as it has way more respect for women than does the Bible, especially the Old Testament...

I suspect that this could be the case, but the stuff that contravened Christian sexual taboos (particularly polygamy and divorce) may have alienated a literate Christian audience.

For protestants the text of the bible became vitally important, and that text has been arranged into a narrative, while the Koran hasn't.

Islam tends to be exported wholesale as a life-style, and in that sense it is a very powerful meme, but the Koran on its own is a tough sell to an already literate population, unless it goes hand in hand with political control.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
I can't agree. While my impression of the Qur'an is not markedly different from yours, I've known plenty of people in the West (including students of mine, as I happen to teach Qur'anic Arabic) who converted just after reading an English translation of it. In these particular cases the converts knew little or nothing about Islam and didn't have any Muslim friends (which is usually how conversions occur). I think you're making an unwarranted assumption.
 
I suspect that this could be the case, but the stuff that contravened Christian sexual taboos (particularly polygamy and divorce) may have alienated a literate Christian audience.

For protestants the text of the bible became vitally important, and that text has been arranged into a narrative, while the Koran hasn't.

Islam tends to be exported wholesale as a life-style, and in that sense it is a very powerful meme, but the Koran on its own is a tough sell to an already literate population, unless it goes hand in hand with political control.

I have no idea what you're talking about with your last paragraph. It is patently untrue.
 

Deleted member 5719

I can't agree. While my impression of the Qur'an is not markedly different from yours, I've known plenty of people in the West (including students of mine, as I happen to teach Qur'anic Arabic) who converted just after reading an English translation of it. In these particular cases the converts knew little or nothing about Islam and didn't have any Muslim friends (which is usually how conversions occur). I think you're making an unwarranted assumption.

Interesting, the experiences of conversions I've had are usually within the context of immersion in Islamic culture, or proselytism on the edges of the Islamic world (i.e. Chad, Nigeria). There, people adopt Islam by contact with believers and with the mosque. The converts and those who convert them (or more correctly aid them in their conversion) are often non-Arabic speakers who have never read the Koran.

This is what I mean by adopting Islam as a meme, i.e. a set of behaviours which are only distantly connected to the text of the Koran.
 
Interesting, the experiences of conversions I've had are usually within the context of immersion in Islamic culture, or proselytism on the edges of the Islamic world (i.e. Chad, Nigeria). There, people adopt Islam by contact with believers and with the mosque. The converts and those who convert them (or more correctly aid them in their conversion) are often non-Arabic speakers who have never read the Koran.

This is what I mean by adopting Islam as a meme, i.e. a set of behaviours which are only distantly connected to the text of the Koran.

I see what you're saying.

Traditionally, Islam has been spread mostly by merchants and sufi mystics, who usually had more advanced knowledge, particularly medical (more powerful magic), leading to personality-based conversion, often initially superficial and coexisting with native practices, often surprisingly pagan. Over time greater orthodoxy generally developed.

But what we're talking about here is a more literary class, where the Quran could provide attractions.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Interesting, the experiences of conversions I've had are usually within the context of immersion in Islamic culture, or proselytism on the edges of the Islamic world (i.e. Chad, Nigeria). There, people adopt Islam by contact with believers and with the mosque. The converts and those who convert them (or more correctly aid them in their conversion) are often non-Arabic speakers who have never read the Koran.

This is what I mean by adopting Islam as a meme, i.e. a set of behaviours which are only distantly connected to the text of the Koran.
Well, I'm talking about Americans who may have no social contact with Muslims whatsoever. Despite our huge Arab student population, my Qur'anic students are almost exclusively converts, academics, and (interestingly) South Asians, because devout Muslims from the Arab world are loath to take Qur'anic Arabic with someone who is neither Muslim nor even Arab. The South Asians and the rest have no such hangups. In any case, the converts often have interesting stories about how they came to Islam -- some marry into it, and the others just "receive the call", usually after coming by a copy of the Qur'an, believe it or not.
 
People converting to Islam is silly but I suppose you could end up making people more accepting of Islam- seeing it as just a weird variant on christianity rather than a evil, alien enemy.
 
People converting to Islam is silly but I suppose you could end up making people more accepting of Islam- seeing it as just a weird variant on christianity rather than a evil, alien enemy.

Given the way most people at the time viewed actual variants on Christianity, I kinda doubt it would help.
 
People converting to Islam is silly but I suppose you could end up making people more accepting of Islam- seeing it as just a weird variant on christianity rather than a evil, alien enemy.

People converting en masse is silly, but individuals might very well.
 
People converting en masse is silly, but individuals might very well.

I doubt it until we get into the 18th century and onwards. And even then they'd be few and far between; likely as a form of protest then a serious conversion too. Books on pagan religions were common(ish) but people didn't convert to them.
I could well see a few radicals deciding to grasp onto islam as a weird alternative then though.

Given the way most people at the time viewed actual variants on Christianity, I kinda doubt it would help.
:rolleyes:
 

What? Look what happened to Tyndale IOTL! Look at the wars of religion! If Anglicans ITTL view Islam as equivalent to Catholicism, that's moving Islam pretty much nowhere.

In the 16th century, "a weird variant on Christianity" is "an evil, alien enemy".
 

Deleted member 5719

I see what you're saying.

Traditionally, Islam has been spread mostly by merchants and sufi mystics, who usually had more advanced knowledge, particularly medical (more powerful magic), leading to personality-based conversion, often initially superficial and coexisting with native practices, often surprisingly pagan. Over time greater orthodoxy generally developed.

Pasha and Leo, I think I'm guilty of over-extrapolating from my own experience. Given I've only ever seen Islam spread through the social work/social meme method in the Sahel and UK, and through cultural hegemony in North Africa, I assumed that this was the only way it happened. Mistake.

I still tend to think Islam would get very few converts if Tyndale had translated it, and it's not a great "converter" in itself, but there would definitely be some intelectual influence.
 
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Valdemar II

Banned
I still tend to think Islam would get very few converts if Tyndale had translated it, and it's not a great "converter" in itself, but there would definitely be some intelectual influence.

Well maybe but I doubt it, most intellectual influence of Islam on Europe happen as a result of interaction with Muslims, the Koran isn't some revolutionary book by the standards of the time, it would just be another translation of a another religions holy book and would have been read by a few intellectuals. When the Koran was translated to other European language we didn't see a big influence, the only time we see a influence was when Christians directly interacted with Islamic communities.
 
I doubt it until we get into the 18th century and onwards. And even then they'd be few and far between; likely as a form of protest then a serious conversion too. Books on pagan religions were common(ish) but people didn't convert to them.
I could well see a few radicals deciding to grasp onto islam as a weird alternative then though.


:rolleyes:

Christians from all over Europe converted to Islam on a regular basis - many prominent Ottomans were Western Christians, from the 15th c on. I don't think anyone is saying that you're going to have thousands of British converts to Islam. We're saying there are likely to be some, particularly those that travel to the Middle East, of which there are many.
 
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