Two Russias?

What if during the Russian revolution ended up as a split between Russia, with the Monarchy remaining in part of Russia, and the soviet union getting the other half? The two main cities at the time (St. Petersburg and Moscow) would become the capitols of the two (Now separate) countries. Where would the boundaries be drawn? Would the emperor get Moscow or St. Petersburg? How would this effect WWII and the Cold War? -Dupree
 
What if during the Russian revolution ended up as a split between Russia, with the Monarchy remaining in part of Russia, and the soviet union getting the other half? The two main cities at the time (St. Petersburg and Moscow) would become the capitols of the two (Now separate) countries. Where would the boundaries be drawn? Would the emperor get Moscow or St. Petersburg? How would this effect WWII and the Cold War? -Dupree

Russia could probably be split more than it was, but not in the way you describe. The reds controlled both cities from near the start, and whether the whites would even be monarchist depends, but is less likely than a republic of some sort.

WW2 will be butterflied, hence butterflying the Cold War.

The most likely candidate for a white rump seems to be a Japanese puppet state on the Pacific.
 
ASB. Lenin and the Communists controlled both Petrograd and Moscow.

But what could happen is that Kolchack could be more successful in Siberia and create a Czarist State at the other side of the Urals.
 
ASB. Lenin and the Communists controlled both Petrograd and Moscow.

But what could happen is that Kolchack could be more successful in Siberia and create a Czarist State at the other side of the Urals.

Pretty much. I'm really very dubious about any White success at all, but give Japan an iron will and they can probably pull something off.
 
Pretty much. I'm really very dubious about any White success at all, but give Japan an iron will and they can probably pull something off.

How long could White Siberia last? Before Stalin deported millions of people there, Siberia didnt have a big population Central Asia would be outside white control too. Giving the reds the better parts of Russia plus Ukranie and maybe all of the Caucas. (They'd take the oil near Baku at any rate)
 
What if White forces drove the Reds our of one of the two cities? Possibly another city a capital of choice int he West?
 
What if White forces drove the Reds our of one of the two cities? Possibly another city a capital of choice int he West?

If they had the power to do that, we'd be talking about what if the Reds were successful in overthrowing Russia...

A Japanese rump state is very possible. The Japanese grab a large chunk of eastern Siberia while both sides are fighting, and put some cousin to the Romanov's in charge of a White Russian puppet state. Does go with their hit first, conquer and puppet style.
 
What if White forces drove the Reds our of one of the two cities? Possibly another city a capital of choice int he West?

It'd almost have to be Moscow which means they've likely won the war. St Petersburg is in the middle of nowhere the surrounding lands are sparely populated it was one of those ‘’imperial cities’’ a certain type of emperor is fond of building.:D

So having St Petersburg & the north-west of Russia would make for a weak state. It’s not impossible but they’d need major western backing to remain independent.
 
How long could White Siberia last? Before Stalin deported millions of people there, Siberia didnt have a big population Central Asia would be outside white control too. Giving the reds the better parts of Russia plus Ukranie and maybe all of the Caucas. (They'd take the oil near Baku at any rate)

Siberia, not long at all. European Russia dominates its whole vast expanse. Once someone is in firm possesion of European Russia, they can seize first the Uralian industry, then the string of settlements along the line.

I'm not referring to Siberia in general, but rather a small state reaching, at the very most, to Baikal, dominated and sustained by Japan. Japan was compelled to withdraw without suffering a huge military defeat by other powers like America OTL: we'd need to change that somehow. And of course the Russians will be keen to recover their Pacific port as soon as possible. But it is, however briefly, Two Russias.
 
It'd almost have to be Moscow which means they've likely won the war. St Petersburg is in the middle of nowhere the surrounding lands are sparely populated it was one of those ‘’imperial cities’’ a certain type of emperor is fond of building.:D

So having St Petersburg & the north-west of Russia would make for a weak state. It’s not impossible but they’d need major western backing to remain independent.

Yeah, Moscow is rather the centre on which things turn. The heartland of industry and population which the Reds won the war by controlling was a rough oval with Moscow in the middle and St.Petroleningrad stuck out right at one end.

Once the Whites have somehow captured and held Moscow, they're just rolling the Reds up. St.Petersburg is threatened by Whites from south and east, Brits from the sea, Finns from the north and the Estonians (and Yudenich) from the west.
 
Unfortunately ASB. The Whites were incompetent, and the Reds had the industrial areas, and thus all needed to conquer all of Russia.

In the sense he outlines, it is pretty well ASB, and industry was one of the most decisive factors. "Incompetent" is a very harsh judgement, though: they were often hamstrung by their complete lack of unity and were up against the very energetic leadership of Trotsky, but their generalship doesn't seem to have been consistently worse than that of the reds.
 
Well if i remeber correctly, during the Russian civil war, Russias allies send troops to help fight off the communists if you need more proof here you go


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War#Overview

This was all basically self-interested. During WW1 a variety of interventions in the periphery were undertaken for military-strategic reasons: the White Sea show was to recover war materiel sent to Russia by the Entente, Dunsterforce and the Batum occupation to enforce the armistice with the Ottomans and establish Entente influence in the new Caucasus states, the Baltic campaign was concerned only with protecting Estonia and Latvia, Poland was fighting for its own survival and aggrandisement, and the Far Eastern Campaign was mere Japanese ambition. I'm not quite so sure what motivated the French in Odessa, but in no Entente power did the will exist for a long, costly war to defeat Communism in Russia
 
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