Two Lucky Princes: A TL
- Thread starter SavoyTruffle
- Start date
yourworstnightmare
Banned
France going for the Lowlands and fight the Habsburgs and the HRE.So France gest Milan and Savoy? Cool
Can't wait to see what's coming next
Faeelin
Banned
Well we know how it was handled, no? There are plenty of examples of of personal unions.
I'm also not sure sure we get French hegemony. After all, Spain and Austria had their own desires there.
I'm actually thinking of screwing over Venice (something I don't really like) and more or less divide Italy into French, Habsburg, and Spanish spheres.
By having them cede many of their Italian possessions to Austria? Kinda like what happened in OTL post-Congress of Vienna.
Do note it isn't set in stone, though.
Very interesting so far. Glad I could provide some inspiration. If you have any questions regarding this period, shoot me some PMs... I'll still working on PoP and I've gotten it into the 1560s so far, but I did a lot of research on the early 16th century so I can probably help if you have any questions!
Glad I could provide some inspiration. If you have any questions regarding this period, shoot me some PMs... I'll still working on PoP and I've gotten it into the 1560s so far, but I did a lot of research on the early 16th century so I can probably help if you have any questions! Very interesting so far.
Thanks again, and I sent a PM with a few questions in it.
I know I probably shouldn't do this
, but Piedmont isn't the whole territory of Savoy. There might still be a (rump) Savoy (proper) and if that's true then the kings of France would be duke of Milan and prince of Piedmont. However this isn't completely clear to me either.
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I know I probably shouln't do this
However this isn't completely clear to me either.
I'm actually thinking of letting the house of Savoy keep their "native" lands, yet France keeps Piedmont.
Someone's taking a bit of points from me.
Good show though.
I seriously did not think of your TL until you pointed it out.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I'm actually thinking of letting the house of Savoy keep their "native" lands, yet France keeps Piedmont.
I seriously did not think of your TL until you pointed it out.
I knew it as soon as you mentioned in screwing Venezia!
The Franco-Iberian War
The Franco-Iberian War, despite its belligerents sharing a land border at the Pyrenees[1], was fought chiefly in Italy, rendering it part of the Italian Wars. It was to be the first test for Miguel in terms of warfare, even though he was not a general and warrior to Francis I's degree.
After taking the throne of Portugal, Iberia was finally united, being formally called the United Kingdom of Castille, Aragon, and Portugal[2], though it was to be more than a mere personal union. Taking into consideration that Castille still was the greatest of the Iberian kingdoms, Miguel set up his court at Toledo, though he frequently visited Lisbon and Barcelona, which were more or less established as regional centers. Recognizing that France was a genuine threat with its possession of the Duchy of Milan, as well as the province of Piedmont from the Duchy of Savoy, to its Italian possessions inherited from Aragon, Miguel commissioned an army of 20000 to make for Naples, including a battery of guns.
Francis I was not done with dominating northwest Italy; he was determined to establish influence over the peninsula, even threatening the Pope himself. He also resurrected the French claim over the Kingship of Naples, and knew that he simply could not claim it without Miguel protecting it. Deciding to strike first, he declared war on Iberia in 1521, taking his army of 22000 through the Papal States, angering the Pope, but was not acted against, fearing France's might.
Miguel was now faced with a real war, not a thought exercise. He joined the army at Naples, and began to take up positions. The Pope, not wishing for French dominance of Italy, as well as knowing too well the Iberian threat, decided to side with Miguel for the meantime...
The war began with a series of indecisive skirmishes, until the Battle of Caserta. There, on the edge of the Campanian plain, both armies faced each other, infantry bristling with pikes and primitive arquebuses;. Francis trusted his judgment better than the more inexperienced Miguel, and so he was a little over confident, putting his cavalry a little more forward.
Francis ordered the infantry to advance, while Miguel simply assumed a defensive square, putting the arquebusiers inside the wall of pikes, assuming that the cavalry could come at any moment[3]. As the the two met, push of pike happened, with the gunners of both sides attempting to break the enemy.Feeling that the time was set to deliver the finisher, Francis and his knights ordered a charge. The square managed to hold off the knights, until Miguel came in and the battle eventually devolved into a mêlée. It was at this stage that Miguel remembered his trump card - he had brought more artillery than Francis. He ordered the cannons to fire, eventually breaking the soldiers, even though the Swiss mercenaries held for longer.
It was a victory for Iberia; 2500 died for Miguel that day, while 3000 died fighting for Francis. Miguel had defeated a greater warrior that day, but the war was not over.
[1]Only the Kingdom of Navarre was the other state of importance straddling the Pyrenees, and one that would decide the fates of the larger kingdoms.
[2]Also including the crowns of Naples, Sicily, and Sardinia, until 1714.
[3]With this, Miguel is credited for inspiring the tercio, which would dominate Iberian warfare for the 16th century.
France and 'Spain' didn't invite England and/or the Habsburg(-Burgundy)s to join them against their enemy. For instance the Habsburgs as Holy Roman Emperor could claim Milan and Piedmont as fiefs, which should revert to the empire, since the way France got these territories have some legitimacy issues. Besides that the house of Habsburg-Burgundy wanted the duchy of Burgundy to be restored to them (IOTL Charles V did try this).
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Oh, the Franco-Iberian War is only the tip of the iceberg... yet the French-Imperial War is on the horizon.
As for England, it will be... distracted.
Exactly - Hungarian independence was ended after Louis II had the misfortune to die at Mohacs and the have the Habsburgs and Ottomans partition it. Now since in this TL Louis doesn't die there...
Revival of the Auld Alliance
King Arthur of England, feeling that with French success in Italy, felt that undermining French power was important. This was reinforced by his strong associations with the Spanish Iberian kingdom - his wife was the youngest daughter of the Catholic Monarchs, and his eldest daughter Mary was married to King Miguel, who by 1517 ruled Castile and Aragon and was the heir to Portugal. Though he declined to participate in the War of the League of Cambrai[1], he eventually declared war on France, following the United Kingdom in late 1521.
Preparing an army, he set out and arrived in Calais in 1522. With French forces distracted in Italy, he hoped to weaken France enough that its expansion would be limited. Regaining the old Angevin lands was certainly out of the question; the decisive loss in the Hundred Years' War of all continental possessions save the Pale of Calais meant that the Tudors prudently looked within Britain. However, James IV of Scotland[2] remembered the Auld Alliance. This defensive pact between France and Scotland stipulated that if either state came under attack by England, then the other would come to its aid. It served well, especially in the Hundred Years' War.
James IV began to mass his soldiers, and by mid-1522, he attacked Northumberland, easily overwhelming the garrisons. By then he had managed to stabilize Scotland, and now, he not only intended to help France, but weaken England by taking regions close to the Scottish border. However, Arthur was not distracted by the news of the invasion, hoping that the second army he initially intended to assist his main army in France could face the Scottish. This army was led by the 3rd Duke of Norfolk, Thomas Howard.
Norfolk began to move north to interrupt James, and they met at Flodden Field. What Norfolk expected to be a clear victory of the bill over the pike, was sadly mistaken. James IV had become more seasoned in battle, eventually making his more impetuous soldiers more disciplined, but still showing the great bravery the Scots were known for. James prudently put himself at the rear, letting the vanguard do their worst. As English and Scottish met, the battle was a bloody show of arms, with the famed longbow not making a difference as major than in France - after all, it was best used against encumbered knights.
In the end, Norfolk was killed[3] and James now had Northumberland firmly in his grasp. When Arthur received the news, he himself returned to England, leaving the army under the command of Charles Percy[4], a seasoned soldier, though not of noble birth.
[1]Arthur isn't as impetuous as Henry VIII is with regards to France.
[2]Since Arthur doesn't participate in the War of the League of Cambrai, James doesn't go and die at Flodden Field.
[3]An exact reversal of OTL.
[4]Entirely made-up.
Preparing an army, he set out and arrived in Calais in 1522. With French forces distracted in Italy, he hoped to weaken France enough that its expansion would be limited. Regaining the old Angevin lands was certainly out of the question; the decisive loss in the Hundred Years' War of all continental possessions save the Pale of Calais meant that the Tudors prudently looked within Britain. However, James IV of Scotland[2] remembered the Auld Alliance. This defensive pact between France and Scotland stipulated that if either state came under attack by England, then the other would come to its aid. It served well, especially in the Hundred Years' War.
James IV began to mass his soldiers, and by mid-1522, he attacked Northumberland, easily overwhelming the garrisons. By then he had managed to stabilize Scotland, and now, he not only intended to help France, but weaken England by taking regions close to the Scottish border. However, Arthur was not distracted by the news of the invasion, hoping that the second army he initially intended to assist his main army in France could face the Scottish. This army was led by the 3rd Duke of Norfolk, Thomas Howard.
Norfolk began to move north to interrupt James, and they met at Flodden Field. What Norfolk expected to be a clear victory of the bill over the pike, was sadly mistaken. James IV had become more seasoned in battle, eventually making his more impetuous soldiers more disciplined, but still showing the great bravery the Scots were known for. James prudently put himself at the rear, letting the vanguard do their worst. As English and Scottish met, the battle was a bloody show of arms, with the famed longbow not making a difference as major than in France - after all, it was best used against encumbered knights.
In the end, Norfolk was killed[3] and James now had Northumberland firmly in his grasp. When Arthur received the news, he himself returned to England, leaving the army under the command of Charles Percy[4], a seasoned soldier, though not of noble birth.
[1]Arthur isn't as impetuous as Henry VIII is with regards to France.
[2]Since Arthur doesn't participate in the War of the League of Cambrai, James doesn't go and die at Flodden Field.
[3]An exact reversal of OTL.
[4]Entirely made-up.