Two Deaths at Bosworth

Who becomes King?


  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

krieger

Banned
To do what? It would have no troops at its disposal. The armies were up in Leicestershire. It could only rubber-stamp whatever Stanley et al decided.

To choose a new King, if Jasper Tudor is dead, armies in Leicestershire would succumb to infighting.
 
To choose a new King, if Jasper Tudor is dead, armies in Leicestershire would succumb to infighting.

But someone would win the infighting, and whoever won would be (or choose) the new King. The actions of an irregular bunch of ex-MPs (not having been called by the present King, they would no longer be a Parliament) would count for nothing.

Anyway who exactly is "infightimg"?

With Richard's army defeated, and Northumberland high-tailing it northward, that only leaves the Lancastrians (under Oxford if Jasper Tudor is dead) and the Stanleys. And Oxford, in that situation, probably accepts Margaret Tudor's husband as the only available "port in a storm". So effectively there is only one army.
 
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krieger

Banned
But someone would win the infighting, and whoever won would be (or choose) the new King. The actions of an irregular bunch of ex-MPs (not having been called by the present King, they would no longer be a Parliament) would count for nothing

I don't know, if they had popular support than troops (significant part of which are foreign mercenaries) would just accept their choice in exchange for personal benefits.
 
I don't know, if they had popular support than troops (significant part of which are foreign mercenaries) would just accept their choice in exchange for personal benefits.

Popular support for whom? Warwick would likely be the most popular, but he is either fled to Burgundy or else Lord Stanley's captive. This imaginary Parliament wold have no candidate to hand.

BTW, Richard III's only Parliament had been dissolved on 20 Feb 1484, so its members would have long since gone home. Even if some of them chose to return to London, is it likely they would get there before Stanley and Oxford did?
 
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krieger

Banned
Popular support for whom? Warwick would likely be the most popular, but he is either fled to Burgundy or else Lord Stanley's captive. This imaginary Parliament wold have no candidate to hand.

BTW, Richard III's only Parliament had been dissolved on 20 Feb 1484, so its members would have long since gone home. Even if some of them chose to return to London, is it likely they would get there before Stanley and Oxford did?

For MPs. Some official in London could usurp royal prerogative and call a new Parliament.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
All this of course being predicated on the fact that either oxford or Tudor survive, which isn’t becfesaielt the case. If both of them die then Stanley isn the driver
 
For MPs. Some official in London could usurp royal prerogative and call a new Parliament.
.

What would be the point of that? Stanley and Oxford would be arriving in London shortly - long before any new "Parliament" could be elected - and whoever they had settled on for King would then call a regular Parliament. Why would any official get himself in hot water with the new regime by playing silly games of that kind? And even if they did, why would the Burgesses or whoever organised such elections pay any attention to an illegal summons from some servant of a dead King?
 

krieger

Banned
.

What would be the point of that? Stanley and Oxford would be arriving in London shortly - long before any new "Parliament" could be elected - and whoever they had settled on for King would then call a regular Parliament. Why would any official get himself in hot water with the new regime by playing silly games of that kind? And even if they did, why would the Burgesses or whoever organised such elections pay any attention to an illegal summons from some servant of a dead King?

This is assuming that Stanley or Oxford are able to maintain control over army, which is doubtful. How could they gather money necessary to keep foreign mercenaries in line?
 

VVD0D95

Banned
This is assuming that Stanley or Oxford are able to maintain control over army, which is doubtful. How could they gather money necessary to keep foreign mercenaries in line?
They could always just pay the mercenaries and send them
Home
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Do they have enough money to do it? In similar situation in Hungary, after death of Matthias Corvinus, Black Army mercenaries were not satisified with small sum.
Stanley is pretty rich already so I’m such he could cough up the money
 
Do they have enough money to do it? In similar situation in Hungary, after death of Matthias Corvinus, Black Army mercenaries were not satisified with small sum.

Well, as soon as they get to London they can be ppaid out of the Treasury, And in the meantime, Lord Stanley was one of the Richest men in England.
 
This is assuming that Stanley or Oxford are able to maintain control over army, which is doubtful.How could they gather money necessary to keep foreign mercenaries in line?

Stanley's troopss are not mercenaries, they are his retainers, loyal to him personally. And if Oxford loses control,where can his men go except Lord Stanley?
 

krieger

Banned
Stanley's troopss are not mercenaries, they are his retainers, loyal to him personally. And if Oxford loses control,where can his men go except Lord Stanley?

They could loot neighbouring settlements carellesly, something which disgruntled mercenaries did pretty often. How Stanley is going to stop them?

Stanley is pretty rich already so I’m such he could cough up the money

OK, so if it's like this, it sounds that he'd be an kingmaker.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
They could loot neighbouring settlements carellesly, something which disgruntled mercenaries did pretty often. How Stanley is going to stop them?



OK, so if it's like this, it sounds that he'd be an kingmaker.

Which to me, makes it seem as if being an Edwardian Yorkist as @isabella points out, he's not going to accept any King unless they're married to Elizabeth of York.
 
They could loot neighbouring settlements carellesly, something which disgruntled mercenaries did pretty often. How Stanley is going to stop them?

Did they do this on the way *to* Bosworth? If not, why should they be any more likely to do so after?
 

krieger

Banned
Which to me, makes it seem as if being an Edwardian Yorkist as @isabella points out, he's not going to accept any King unless they're married to Elizabeth of York.

He doesn't have any children, so he most likely would marry Warwick to EoY.
 
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