Straw poll, please.
For some reason, I really want a fourth party to pop up ITTL.
For some reason, I really want a fourth party to pop up ITTL.
Twists and Turns: An Alternate 1952 and Beyond
- Thread starter Gentleman Biaggi
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Admiral Halsey
Banned
Vote "Bombs Away" LeMay folks! Can't worry about your enemies when they're in the stone age!
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
https://www.strawpoll.me/17183181
https://www.strawpoll.me/17183199
https://www.strawpoll.me/17183215
You can vote for more than one candidate I guess
I've said it once and I'll say it again:
I'll post my votes for each party.
Democrats: George Wallace (Nearly any other TL and this would be a terrible thing to say), Hubert Humphrey, and Russell Long
Republicans: George Romney, Joe Foss, and Harold Stassen (Because he needs to run every election, damn it!)
Constitution: Jim Buckley (Shudder), Curtis Lemay (Shudder), and John Wayne (Because why the fuck not?)
Democrats: George Wallace (Nearly any other TL and this would be a terrible thing to say), Hubert Humphrey, and Russell Long
Republicans: George Romney, Joe Foss, and Harold Stassen (Because he needs to run every election, damn it!)
Constitution: Jim Buckley (Shudder), Curtis Lemay (Shudder), and John Wayne (Because why the fuck not?)
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
Wallace/Long 1972! Who needs the establishment when you can become the establishment!!!!!
"...Native annalists may look sadly back from the future on that period when we had the atomic bomb and the Russians didn't. Or when the Russians had aquired (through connivance and treachery of Westerns with warped minds) the atomic bomb - and yet still didn't have any stockpile of the weapons. That was the era when we might have destroyed Russia completely and not even skinned our elbows doing it."
-Future President Curtis LeMay
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
I would too, but he was SecState under Dirksen during the Iranian war so he's not really too popular
After slogging through this for the past hour, I have to say that I really dislike this TL and I have a strong distaste for some chapters. The first half is just a big mess with only one or two paragraphs covering entire years worth of events or political developments, with almost everything being handwaved and policies being summed up as "He did a bad thing" or "He did a good thing and everyone loved him". The most ludicrous event of here is the Iranian War where despite a united west and Arab world with a post-Korea America, the United States gets their ass handed to them by 1950's barely modernized Iran. The Iran War makes no sense because it just sums up to Iran attacked, and they won the war.
This is literally the only explanation for how Iran won, they wanted to drive the west out, and so they did. Did Iran somehow weaponize the power of friendship? How the hell did such an unstable government win against a greater numbered and technologically superior force?
It's also pretty disgusting how one-sided the wanking in this story is with the "Super Hero Liberal" Democrats winning 9 times out of 10 and the Republicans are bumbling idiots who screw up every perfect opportunity, while the Constitution party is your cliche Conservative third party made up of "Racist, Backwards, Southerners and Gun Nuts". The Republicans could run Jesus Christ as president against Satan the Democratic nominee and Satan would win because the Constitution party and other independents split the vote and Jesus made a few gaffes. Foreign policy makes no sense as the west switches between being Neo-Fascists and being super Liberal. The "conflict" is a joke with most races coming down to a candidate or two screwing up and then the favorite son wins, with the GOP practically being the Democrat's lapdogs with how much they're literally the same party right now and jumping at every opportunity for the President. And the worse part of this is almost the entire story is nothing but election chapters with barely any coverage on hard policies and how they are carried out, with every election coming down to someone is great so they win, the favored candidate gets screwed by divisions in their own party and third parties, or someone is really bad and nasty and needs to be kicked out of office. This isn't a political story, it's about popularity elections.
Overall this world feels really artificial with no sense of grounding or realism and for the most part seems to push an agenda rather than building up the plot. I'll pass.
Ramadan Offensive
For many, the Ramadan offensive was the key moment of the Iranian-American War. In 1956 the American and Iranian Forces decided that they would hold a ceasefire during the first week of Ramadan, and the last day of Ramadan. While the idea was originally rejected by the Americans, Saudi Arabian king Saud and Iranian Revolutionaries finally convinced Stevenson to do it. At the decision, Canadian Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent stated that “This is a perfect example of peace during war”. St. Laurent’s words would later come back to haunt him.
By 1957, the Iran and its allies were losing. The nation needed a boost, as Iranian Azerbaijan had already been taken over by Rebels, Saudis, and Americans. By April of 1957, Mosaddegh decided to attack during the Ramadan ceasefire. On the second day of Ramadan 1957, the first shots of the Ramadan offensive were shot. Iranian Azerbaijan was a rebel haven, as Saudis had assisted the rebels in that area, and the Anglo forces captured it at the beginning of the conflict. Due to this, the goal of the Ramadan Offensive was to chase the Rebels and Americans out of the area. They succeeded. During the one week offensive, the alliance forces were chased out of all but a few small areas in Azerbaijan.
Captured Iranian Rebels during the Iranian-American War
While the offensive is famously remembered as the reason America lost the war. This is in no way true. The offensive allegedly showed cracks in the United States military. However, the cracks were already showing. There were many signs that General Curtis Lemay disagreed and possibly even split with president Everett Dirksen. Due to these splits, the Iranians were able to take advantages in the conflict. The nation could see victory or loss due to these cracks. Only time would tell if it would...
This is literally the only explanation for how Iran won, they wanted to drive the west out, and so they did. Did Iran somehow weaponize the power of friendship? How the hell did such an unstable government win against a greater numbered and technologically superior force?
It's also pretty disgusting how one-sided the wanking in this story is with the "Super Hero Liberal" Democrats winning 9 times out of 10 and the Republicans are bumbling idiots who screw up every perfect opportunity, while the Constitution party is your cliche Conservative third party made up of "Racist, Backwards, Southerners and Gun Nuts". The Republicans could run Jesus Christ as president against Satan the Democratic nominee and Satan would win because the Constitution party and other independents split the vote and Jesus made a few gaffes. Foreign policy makes no sense as the west switches between being Neo-Fascists and being super Liberal. The "conflict" is a joke with most races coming down to a candidate or two screwing up and then the favorite son wins, with the GOP practically being the Democrat's lapdogs with how much they're literally the same party right now and jumping at every opportunity for the President. And the worse part of this is almost the entire story is nothing but election chapters with barely any coverage on hard policies and how they are carried out, with every election coming down to someone is great so they win, the favored candidate gets screwed by divisions in their own party and third parties, or someone is really bad and nasty and needs to be kicked out of office. This isn't a political story, it's about popularity elections.
Overall this world feels really artificial with no sense of grounding or realism and for the most part seems to push an agenda rather than building up the plot. I'll pass.
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
Let's unpack this shall we
And uh, I think I've made this pretty clear, the west is not united, and particularly not then, when a major Middle Eastern War began to affect the international oil economy and that lead to some unrest in much of the world. Nooooo
Plus it's not like Nasser had risen to power then, or France was in chaos (and had several colonial wars to take care of), or there might be other issues (Israel) that would have lead to Arab nations joining their side.
Although I didn't mention that as much as I'd like looking back so you may have a point on that.
Anyway, I'm gonna go check out the updates about Kefauver's policies and how they got implemented, oh wait that had a George Putnam box attached to it
Ok so that might be a problem
I'm very sorry
Agreed, although I hope I've improved as a writer as time has gone on
Guess not!
While I do agree that some things can often be rushed (That's on me- I often go back on things, as @Gerbbro knows well) I feel like I've mentioned that a lot of decisions made by leaders are controversial and are definitely not set in stone. That being said, if you have some of my updates you'd like to help me edit...
Oh good you do!
And uh, I think I've made this pretty clear, the west is not united, and particularly not then, when a major Middle Eastern War began to affect the international oil economy and that lead to some unrest in much of the world. Nooooo
Plus it's not like Nasser had risen to power then, or France was in chaos (and had several colonial wars to take care of), or there might be other issues (Israel) that would have lead to Arab nations joining their side.
Although I didn't mention that as much as I'd like looking back so you may have a point on that.
*looks at modern-day Democrats*
The Constitution Party is actually pro-gun control IOTL because of teh scary left wingers with guns but yes I am cliche sometimes
Man, you are not gonna like it when I have Lyndon LaRouche defeat Abraham Lincoln reincarnated because of Lincoln's squeaky voice and the Constitution Party (who took more support from Democrats ITTL) running a strong enough candidate to split the anti-LaRouche vote
Sorry, I guess I just like writing about elections more.
Anyway, I'm gonna go check out the updates about Kefauver's policies and how they got implemented, oh wait that had a George Putnam box attached to it
Ok so that might be a problem
Cool with me
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
Just in case y’all were wondering- I am still keeping this alive. Basketball and school have been kicking my ass lately, but an update concerning two of this TL’s favourite areas (LA and New Jersey) should be up tomorrow. Of course, a satanic Republican will get destroyed in both due to vote-splitting but still.
Also, I’d like to let you know that Jim Buckley is actually James Buckley soo maybe change your vote in the straw poll?
Also, I’d like to let you know that Jim Buckley is actually James Buckley soo maybe change your vote in the straw poll?
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