Twists and Turns: An Alternate 1952 and Beyond
- Thread starter Gentleman Biaggi
- Start date
- Status
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
This is my most “experimental” TL so expect the unexpected
Always
Expect me to retract a lot too
Last edited:
Oh now this is interesting. It will be interesting to see A.) how many seats each of the areas get and B.) how they vote. I think you hit the nail on the head with some of the points in this, regardless of which party gets in for seats in Malta, the MPs are probably going to be quite conservative compared to the national parties back 'home' in the UK, while I can't see much success for the Tories in the Caribbean, especially with someone like Williams as PM. Was Cyprus included at all, I know Salisbury was a very strong opponent of Cypriot independence and even resigned as Leader of the House of Lords over the release of Archbishop Makarios III.
What is the general mood politically like in the UK then as of 'now' ITTL (1966 I guess) - I guess the Tories should be feeling alright considering Labour is split quite evenly down the middle with the DLP?
What is the general mood politically like in the UK then as of 'now' ITTL (1966 I guess) - I guess the Tories should be feeling alright considering Labour is split quite evenly down the middle with the DLP?
Last edited:
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
Cyprus was actually supposed to be included, I'm just an idiot who loves copy-paste
Meanwhile, Maltese MPs will probably be a bit more conservative, but there will be a mess in Ulster that leads to a split in Maltese politics
The left in the UK feels suppressed and split, as the DLP is falling in the polls due to their 'wartime' coalition with Williams and Salisbury and Labour can't quite rise above the fray with so much potential vote-splitting. Europe in general is moving to the right with Massu and Salazar having a lot of control over the formerly Spanish states (except for the Independent-minded Andalusia), and its clear that Portugal has support from even supposedly moderate nations, as the UK, West Germany, and Italy famously helped them defend Goa, Daman and Diu from India.
Update 59: Northern Ireland
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
Northern Ireland
Following Salisbury's death, he was replaced by Deputy Prime Minister and DLP leader Patrick Walter, who was then replaced by Right-Wing colonialist Conservative Geoffrey F. Rippon. Under Rippon, the United Kingdom began to crack down on Northern Irish Nationalist groups. Parliament banned the Irish Republican Army, the Sinn Féin party, the Ulster Nationalist Party, the Communist Party of Ireland, and many other groups affiliated with reunification. This lead to more protests, and the police and army's response to that was often violent and lead to counter-violence that would be used to justify more police and government violence/repression. This would begin the infamous period in Northern Irish, Irish, and British history known as "the Troubles". There was outrage from some Catholics, generally within the United Kingdom (albeit Robert Kennedy and former president McCormack were often vocal critics of the UK's policy on Northern Irish Catholics) that famously made a major impact within Maltese politics, as Malta's conservative party would split from the national Conservative Party and run its own candidates in 1967 following an incident where military officials and police opened fire on anti-government protesters who carried some weapons to potentially defend themselves from counter protesters and police, causing an international scene. With this, Northern Ireland would continue to decent into chaos and would make the mid-late 20th century worse for the United Kingdom.
For a totally non-ominous reason here's a list of Norn Iron's MPs because most of them will lose re-election
Antrim North: Henry Clark (UUP)
Antrim South: Knox Cunningham (UUP)
Armagh: John Maginnis (UUP)
Belfast East: Stanley McMaster (UUP)
Belfast North: H. Montgomery Hyde (Freedom)
Belfast South: Rafton Pounder[4] (UUP)
Belfast West: Billy Boyd (NI Labour)
Down North: George Currie (UUP)
Down South: Lawrence Orr (UUP)
Fermanagh and South Tyrone: Robert G. Grosvenor (UUP)
Londonderry: Robin Chichester-Clark (UUP)
Mid Ulster: Tom Mitchell (Independent Republican)
Antrim South: Knox Cunningham (UUP)
Armagh: John Maginnis (UUP)
Belfast East: Stanley McMaster (UUP)
Belfast North: H. Montgomery Hyde (Freedom)
Belfast South: Rafton Pounder[4] (UUP)
Belfast West: Billy Boyd (NI Labour)
Down North: George Currie (UUP)
Down South: Lawrence Orr (UUP)
Fermanagh and South Tyrone: Robert G. Grosvenor (UUP)
Londonderry: Robin Chichester-Clark (UUP)
Mid Ulster: Tom Mitchell (Independent Republican)
[2] He may not have been like this OTL (or at least according to my little-known source) but he was quite supportive of Apartheid and Rhodesia and I could see him denying another such thing to NI Catholics
[3] Made-up name (if @Gonzo (or anyone else) knows anyone who fits such a description existed (or exists) I'll replace Watson with whoever)
[4] After making up a boring-ass name- I now wish I had came up with a name as fucking iconic as Rafron Pounder
Last edited:
Explainth
Oh now these are interesting...
-Knox Cunningham is going to be on the way out at the next (or possible next after that) general election. He'd have been a great alternative PM here.
-Maginnis is probably feeling quite uncomfortable in the UUP considering he was on the liberal end of the party.
-I wouldn't be too miffed if Labour won in my area (East Belfast) as David Bleakley was a brilliant politician and man in general. Still McMaster is sufficiently moderate and sane for my tastes.
-Hyde is going to have a fight on his hands in North Belfast with Big Ian running there. He can still win with the support of moderate Catholics, but its going to be a helluva fight (like which occurred in this seat in 1979 OTL).
-Rafton Pounder, the most pornstar-y sounding politician ever. Once again one of the moderates in the party who is potentially going to feel really out of place if the UUP follows the Tories towards the hard right.
-Billy Boyd there eh? Unlike others in the NILP in that area he's not explicitly nationalist, which is something. He could have issues in the future as he has to try and keep his weird Protestant & Catholic base together without alienating one or both of them.
-Can't say I know much about Currie except that he was the predecessor of one of the most colourful NI politicians as MP for North Down - Sir Jim Kilfedder. Kilfedder a maverick pro-devolution moderate Unionist was also one of those men who was in the closet but everyone knew about it. Might be quite an interesting figure for you to use here as time goes on - after all he sat on the Tory benches as an MP until his death in 1995 (which was as a result of a newspaper over here saying that a militant gay rights group was going to name several closeted gay MPs, including one from NI, if they didn't start supporting gay rights in parliament. The old fashioned Kilfedder naturally panicked and had a heart attack on the train from the airport in London).
-Same as Currie here for Orr - though I doubt Enoch Powell will be the one to succeed him... now that is going to lead to some butterflies...
-Grosvenor still in parliament eh? That's interesting as he was the richest man in the UK in the 1970s, so he should be up your street for use here (plus he has a rather acceptable wikipedia photo).
-Robin Chichester-Clark, the Tory leader in my awful British TL. A brilliant alt-history figure considering he was a Minister OTL and one of the last such people from NI. A moderate in the party and the brother of the penultimate NI Prime Minister, definitely one of the 'big beasts' here.
-I'm stumped by Mitchell however. A former MP for about five minutes in 1955 (twice actually), he had been disqualified from sitting in parliament for his membership of the IRA, so I fail to see how he could hold the seat here. If you want the seat to be held by a nationalist, which is more than possible at this time, then I can suggest Austin Currie of the Nationalist Party (Bernadette Devlin is too young). While a conservative in politics, he was a major figure in the civil rights movement, and later become a minister down south.
Politically you can include Mills, Pounder, Chichester-Clark, Grosvenor and Kilfedder (when he pops up) in line with the centre-right moderate pro-devolution Unionism that is very much the opposite of what Paisley for instance advocated.
Overall a fascinting update here and I like it. Who is the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland here? If you want someone more conservative then have Brian Faulkner beat Terrence O'Neill for the leadership of the UUP in 1963, or even have Bill Craig become leader. If you want liberals in the party to be prominent then have a strengthen O'Neill.
Civil rights is so dead here its not even funny.
Last edited:
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
You'll see
Yea he'll probably join the Freedom Party
With a split in the UUP, he might have a chance in '67
Will Change
Faulkner is in fact PM, but with a major shift occuring that may change
Yeahhhhhh
It’ll probably be worse ITTL unfortunately
I intend on making an alternate 1980 revolving around John B. Anderson, where the Democratic primaries are essentially a footnote. Should I make an update about the Democratic primaries or nah?
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
If Carter still gets nominated, you don’t need to do that
I look forward to reading your TL!
Update 60: 1966 Midterms Part I
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
Uhhhhh I guess I'll explain it later
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever since the famous Hawaiian Democratic Revolution[1], Hawaii had been a solidly Democratic state. It had two Democratic senators, two Democratic representatives, four Democratic electoral votes, and a Democratic governor since statehood. However, this began to change as the 1960s went on. It first began with Walter Judd's 1960 campaign[2]. Judd's massive support for the Republic of China had pushed many Chinese-Americans to the Republican party, as many had left mainland China following the Communist victory in the Chinese Civil War and others who had roots in the United States going back to the late 19th century hated Mao's regime for hurting and killing so many of their people, some of which were even related to them (although this does conveniently ignore the mass deportations and arrests of left-wing and pro-democracy figures in the ROC following Chiang Kai-shek's assassination)[3]. As Hawaii was about 5% Chinese, this did slightly effect the state's politics. However, a major part of the Hawaiian-Chinese population had more roots in Hawaii than many Chinese-Americans did in mainland China, so there was less of a "family element" when they heard of the horrors of the Cultural Revolution. Still, Judd's campaign reached out to Asians of all backgrounds, due to his strong opposition to the rising tide of Communism in East Asia and the Middle East[4] and pushed the demographic group to the Republican party. However, this process was slower in Hawaii, generally due to the circumstances around the Democratic Revolution of 1954.
However, 1966 looked like a prime year for the Republicans to take power in the state. The party had slowly been moving up in power in the state and it nominated Hiram Fong for Governor, the former Speaker of the Hawaii house who managed to survive the Democratic Revolution and win re-election. Not only that, but popular governor John Burns would not be running for a third term, thus causing an open primary. Fong was very popular and had connections within the party, so there was no competitive primary to worry about. Meanwhile, the Hawaii Democrats were heavily divided, as the center of the party had largely taken over and many on the left felt ignored. After a competitive primary where centrist representative Thomas Gill won out against left-wing candidates. With this, labour leader and journalist Koji Ariyoshi[5] decided to run under the Socialist Party label to protest the Democrats and their move to the center. With this, the election got more and more interesting.
While Ariyoshi was a controversial figure, considering his ties to Communism, his support for labour unions made him very popular in pro-labour areas on the islands, and he largley pushed back against accusations of Communist sympathies. Meanwhile, the Socialists saw an opportunity to make themselves relevant again, and pushed a lot into the campaign, raising lots of money (but only in populist ways of course) and having Ariyoshi make powerful speeches across the islands. Meanwhile, Gill attempted to stop the bleeding of voters to Ariyoshi by bringing in popular left-wing figures from the state. This may have actually hurt him, as he was overshadowed by these people and it showed many on the left what they could have instead of Gill. Hell, Gill was even overshadowed by his running mate, Nelson Doi, and this would hurt his campaign going into it. While many say Fong's campaign was only successful due to vote-splitting, his campaign didn't slouch, as Fong was very active. In the end, no one really knew what to expect.
While Fong's campaign was sort of expected to win, the major surprise was how well Ariyoshi did. While most expected him to get about 3-5% he massively outdid expectations by nearly receiving 10% of the vote and many wondered why he did so well. The main thing was that Ariyoshi brought many labour voters who generally didn't vote to the polls, and considering the Socialist Party's support for GLBT rights, that may have caused many to turn out for the party, as Hawaii has had a history of support for GLBT rights[6]. The success of Ariyoshi helped the Socialists a lot, as they managed to win several seats in Hawaii's state legislature and polled high in Gill's former house district. Time would tell if the Socialist Party would grow as a result of this election.
-----------------------------------------
In Alabama's 6th District, representative George Huddleson Jr. was growing unpopular. The right wing hated him for not leaving the Democrats, and the left wing hated him for being segregationist and not allying with popular governor George Wallace. With this, it became clearer and clearer that he'd lose re-election and he faced a very strong Republican challenger who was attacking him from the left. However, following Republican Jack Edwards' surprising plurality victory in 1962, the Democrats and Constitutionites created a two-round system for Alabama election, and would hold the first round a month away from the general election. However, Edwards became a "political chameleon" in this system. If the Constitution Party made it to the second round, he tried to appeal to centrist voters as the lesser of two evils, and when the Democrats made it to the second round, he moved to the right. This presented a way to success for Republicans in Alabama, a state with an interesting centrist/right-wing split in some areas.
John Hall Buchanan[7] was a moderate Republican pastor in Birmingham who ran for congress in 1962, and after losing supposedly retired from politics. However, with Huddleson growing unpopular in his home district, Buchanan saw an importunity to push Southern Republicans forward with a victory. Buchanan also received a strange honor. As Buchanan had been a major supporter of the destruction of the Alabama KKK, he received support from George Wallace and John M. Patterson as opposed to Huddleson, who often feuded with Wallace's populist machine. With this, Buchanan was able to make it to the second round with support from centrists in the district. In the second round his opponent was Asa Carter, a former Bull Connor speech writer[8] who supposedly had ties to the KKK. With this, many in Alabama decided it was best to unite around Buchanan, and Huddleson decided to do so begrudgingly. This actually helped Carter, as he decried the "
With Buchanan's victory, the state of Alabama would have two Republican Representatives, something that hadn't happened since 1894. This gave hope to those that wanted to expand the Republican party in southern areas that weren't Florida.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Vermont, governor Robert Stafford had been serving since 1958. In 1957, he became independent to protest Harold Stassen's loss in the Republican Primaries despite winning the popular vote and a majority of the states. However, Stafford returned to the Republicans in 1964 when they nominated Henry Cabot Lodge, and he continued his term as governor. However, in 1966 he was retiring to run for senate in 1968 after 8 years as a very popular governor. With this, it was time for Vermont to chose his successor.
Stafford's planned successor was Thomas L. Hayes, his moderate Lt. Governor. However, Hayes shockingly lost the Republican primary to libertarian Roger MacBride[10]. MacBride's anti-Liberian War politics were popular in the state and his conservative/libertarian beliefs made him popular with those disappointed with the centrism of the Vermont Republican Party. Meanwhile, the Democrats nominated far-left former congressman William H. Meyer. The nomination of a far-left and a (Vermont-wise) far-right candidate angered moderates, and with that, Stafford decided to run a write-in campaign for governor, hoping to replicate his success as an independent.
Of course, there were more challenges with a write-in campaign than there were for an independent campaign. Stafford was able to win the Democratic nomination as an independent with his center-left politics. However, the far-out politics of MacBride and Meyer provided a solid base for Stafford. Not only that, but as Stafford had a fairly common last name and had been on the ballot for twelve straight years (he ran for Attorney General twice) so it was very unlikely any errors around the spelling of his name.
MacBride's campaign largely tried to appeal to right-wing voters and those who were angry at the traditional Vermont Republican Party. Meanwhile, Meyer tried to appeal to working class voters and those on the left. Stafford on the other hand, really didn't campaign. He generally just touted his name when compared to his more extreme opponents, and that made his campaign fall in the polls. He went from a sure lead to making the race a hyper-competitive three-way. With this, the victor was anyone's guess, and many felt the election would end controversially.
In the end, MacBride outdid most polls, and many felt it was either because Stafford split centrist votes from Meyer or because Meyer split left-wing votes from Stafford. In the end, the state of Vermont would move to the right for the next two years.
Footnotes:
[1] Same thing happened OTL
[2] Since I mentioned Walter Judd, I'm contractually forced to tag @GrayCatbird42
[3] Not comparing ITTL's deportations & jailings to the horrors of the Cultural Revolution ITTL/IOTL, just saying they're rarely mentioned ITTL when talking about how terrible the PRC is.
[4] Yes, Communists are growing in power in both areas. Syria's fallen to Communism, Japan's Liberal and Democratic Parties are split so the socialists are in power (with some support from the Communists)
[5] Ariyoshi is not jailed for trying to overthrow the US government ITTL, so he's a bit more credible.
[6] Hawaii has always been ok/good on LGBT rights. Many natives of the island did not fit Western genders, and the aliʻi people often had same-sex relationships, as Lilikalā Kameʻeleihiwa states of them "If you didn't sleep with a man, how could you trust him when you went into battle? How would you know if he was going to be the warrior that would protect you at all costs, if he wasn't your lover?". So Hawaii used to be full of tops. Good to know[11]. This is slightly extended ITTL, with the LGBT rights movement growing earlier.
[7] Since I mentioned John Buchanan, I'm contractually forced to tag @Gonzo
[8] Carter was a Wallace speech writer ITTL, and IOTL he's given a similar position
[9] All things crossed out are things that Carter never said but let's be honest... he meant those things
[10] Fine I'm unoriginal. Fuck you. You're the one still reading this, not me.
[11] this footnote was largely taken from Wikipedia
Last edited:
- Status