Twilight of the Red Tsar

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The demographic crisis Russia is currently suffering from is also going to be that much worse, given that a huge number of Russians are going to be killed or sent to die in the Gulag.

I would be unsurprised to find this being used as an opportunity to settle the "Nationalities" question. There is no Ukraine, there is no Belarus, Latvia, Russia etc, there is only Soviet...
 
The demographic crisis Russia is currently suffering from is also going to be that much worse, given that a huge number of Russians are going to be killed or sent to die in the Gulag.

Are we assuming more conservative Communist parties, for example Stalin's proteges in areas like Mongolia are going to be around for a while.
 
Damn, this is bad. It's like the madness of Medieval witch trails on an industrial scale. Makes wonder if the new bureaucracy is going to be like army after the first Great Purge, largely inept and void of competence, probably, just the sauce on this suffering sandwich.

The Red Scare is going to be like on crack, considering Khrushchev at least wanted to coexist rather than prepare for total war and terrorize his people, so people ITTL have good reason to be scared.

Also waiting to see how this effects the wars in Korea and Indochina, I read part of the reason Korea ended was the new Soviet leadership wanted it to, so maybe it just drags on ITTL. I guess you could say some people just wanna watch the world burn.
 
I would be unsurprised to find this being used as an opportunity to settle the "Nationalities" question. There is no Ukraine, there is no Belarus, Latvia, Russia etc, there is only Soviet...
After the Great Purge and Nazi occupation the cultural life of many of the western Republics has taken a serious hit. Stalin may well decide to attack to deliver the fatal blow.
Are we assuming more conservative Communist parties, for example Stalin's proteges in areas like Mongolia are going to be around for a while.
It depends on how bad things get and who follows Stalin. If Khrushchev becomes leader then we will see some denunciations (although if the Soviet Holocaust gets bad enough even Khrushchev might be forced to keep things under wraps), but if Malenkov or some other hardliner takes power all that will happen is that Stalin's cult of personality will be rolled back and his successors will have to deal with the mess he left them.
Damn, this is bad. It's like the madness of Medieval witch trails on an industrial scale. Makes wonder if the new bureaucracy is going to be like army after the first Great Purge, largely inept and void of competence, probably, just the sauce on this suffering sandwich.

The Red Scare is going to be like on crack, considering Khrushchev at least wanted to coexist rather than prepare for total war and terrorize his people, so people ITTL have good reason to be scared.

Also waiting to see how this effects the wars in Korea and Indochina, I read part of the reason Korea ended was the new Soviet leadership wanted it to, so maybe it just drags on ITTL. I guess you could say some people just wanna watch the world burn.
Korea will be the focus of the next update.
 
Stalin will provoke WW3. Bastard. Korea will be the precursor, but it'll probably happen in the Mid East - Turkey and Iran.
 
Stalin will provoke WW3. Bastard. Korea will be the precursor, but it'll probably happen in the Mid East - Turkey and Iran.

I'm not sure. Stalin was very cautious and he only did things if he was sure he could get away with it. So he somehow has to get convinced that he's holding all the cards, that WW3 is a guaranteed win. It's either that or WW3 happening by accident.
 
Maybe because of this the UN/US will be convinced to try a counterattack to drive the Chinese out of Korea and reunify it,assuming that is even possible.
 
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I wonder what the veterans of the thirties are doing? By this I mean the people in the West who ardently declared that the stories of the Famine were Hearst-incited propaganda, that the Purge Trials were scrupulously legal and absolutely true, that Stalin could be removed by the Politburo in a moment, but wouldn't be because he was genuinely loved by the Soviet People, and so on. And for every die-hard supporter of the Soviet line there will be two or a half-dozen people who say, "I suppose there must be something to it."

I think this could trigger a bitterer cultural war between "red-baiters" and "pinkos", as academics and intellectuals and trust-fund liberals protest the American meddling in the internal affairs of the Soviet Union.

How is all this going over in the West, anyhow?
 
I'm not sure. Stalin was very cautious and he only did things if he was sure he could get away with it. So he somehow has to get convinced that he's holding all the cards, that WW3 is a guaranteed win. It's either that or WW3 happening by accident.
In 1953 Stalin would be too cautious to launch WWIII on purpose. However his mental state was deteriorating, and thus it's possible that he could eventually reach a state where either he decides that war would be a good idea, or he does something so stupid that it makes WWIII inevitable. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but it's a possibility.
Maybe because of this the UN/US will be convinced to try a counterattack to drive the Chinese out of Korea and reunify it,assuming that is even possible.
There was talk of using nukes if the peace talks failed....(although it's hard to say if the US would have gone through with it).
I wonder what the veterans of the thirties are doing? By this I mean the people in the West who ardently declared that the stories of the Famine were Hearst-incited propaganda, that the Purge Trials were scrupulously legal and absolutely true, that Stalin could be removed by the Politburo in a moment, but wouldn't be because he was genuinely loved by the Soviet People, and so on. And for every die-hard supporter of the Soviet line there will be two or a half-dozen people who say, "I suppose there must be something to it."

I think this could trigger a bitterer cultural war between "red-baiters" and "pinkos", as academics and intellectuals and trust-fund liberals protest the American meddling in the internal affairs of the Soviet Union.

How is all this going over in the West, anyhow?
The US reaction/the Red Scare will be the subject of another update. For now suffice to say that it's going to be worse than IOTL.

The true believer Communists will for the most part continue to believe, since after 20-30 years of singing Stalin's praises its psychologically easier to think he's a good guy then to admit you were duped for decades (and other factors like a natural distrust of anything the US says about the USSR).
 
In 1953 Stalin would be too cautious to launch WWIII on purpose. However his mental state was deteriorating, and thus it's possible that he could eventually reach a state where either he decides that war would be a good idea, or he does something so stupid that it makes WWIII inevitable. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but it's a possibility.

There is Yugoslavia, Stalin had plan to invade them as he can't stand anyone not in his control, but OTL the Korea prevented this...maybe if the war in asia end like OTL he can decide to recoup there (probably due to a failing mental health...thing very very possible after a stroke, there are many cases of subtle or not so subtle change of personality that can be associated at the damage received.)
In any case in the 50's there are been a lot of crisis that can easily escalate:
- Vietnam (more tension can bring the US president to greenlight operation Vulture)
- The First Taiwan strait crisis.
- The Syrian Crisis of 1957
- Suez in 1956
Just to make some example
There was talk of using nukes if the peace talks failed....(although it's hard to say if the US would have gone through with it).

The US reaction/the Red Scare will be the subject of another update. For now suffice to say that it's going to be worse than IOTL.

Oh joy, McCarty for president

The true believer Communists will for the most part continue to believe, since after 20-30 years of singing Stalin's praises its psychologically easier to think he's a good guy then to admit you were duped for decades (and other factors like a natural distrust of anything the US says about the USSR).

While true believer will not be swayed at this stage of their lifes; this are no more the 30's with the 'ism' on the rise due to the perceived failure of previous structure, or a population spoiled by the war propaganda being much more suspicious of big claim than before (see Rape of Belgium).
Speaking from an european pow, this can bring a rise on the number of social-democrat and socialist and an serious hit for the communist parties, and in any case after the old leadership has been removed a much less dependence on Moscow in leadership.
 
The true believer Communists will for the most part continue to believe, since after 20-30 years of singing Stalin's praises its psychologically easier to think he's a good guy then to admit you were duped for decades (and other factors like a natural distrust of anything the US says about the USSR).

Oh joy, McCarthy for president.

Oh yes. A chronic drunk who had no clear idea of what communism was except if he shouted long enough about it he would get attention.

His media tactics were taken directly from the "brown scare" of the thirties and wartime, when accusations of being fascist or even Nazi stooges were thrown about with the same abandon that McCarthyites shouted "Commie!" The most leading "brown-baiter" was the leading light of the Special Committee on Un-American Activities, the predecessor of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, Samuel Dickstein.

That's right, the same man who later became a Soviet secret agent, and was dropped by them for being too corrupt. They had sized him up properly, too; his code name was CROOK.


A lot of people would be accused of being communists. Some would be. But the majority would be merely those who had disagreed with someone. Like the most current McCarthyite, who claims that the Normandy Landings were a communist plot and that U.S. policy from 1934 to 1981 was run by the Soviet Union. And when called in it, they spew vitrol and complain that their opponents are smearing them.
 
A lot of people would be accused of being communists. Some would be. But the majority would be merely those who had disagreed with someone. Like the most current McCarthyite, who claims that the Normandy Landings were a communist plot and that U.S. policy from 1934 to 1981 was run by the Soviet Union. And when called in it, they spew vitrol and complain that their opponents are smearing them.

First i want the same thing that people smoke for having this kind of idea, must be very good and very powerfull.
Probably anyone who have ideas even an inch not in tune with the mainstream...or what someone think it's mainstream will be a target.
This can be ugly when some cooler head prevail and finally realize that the 'good old senator' has come way too far, expecially if J.E.Hoover has been more active and forcefull in dealing with supposed enemy and they had go very strong against the civil rights movements as can be seen as a communist movement (seen in this manner by...not so enlighted citizens:rolleyes:).
 
The only good thing is the POD is after Ike becomes President, and McCarthy will be dead by 1957 - actually he might drink himself to death sooner because, though it's possible he won't be brought down quite as fast TTL - he will get even mroe scared, and "self-medicate," as one might call it, by drowning himself in alcohol.

Oh, a second one - I've read on these baords that Mccarthy was pro-Civil Rights.Which might be an interesting way to impact U.S. politics - what if McCarthy accuses J. Edgar Hoover of being a Communist?

Hmmm, if Joe McCarthy accused J.Edgar Hoover of being a Commie, the TV ratings for the ensuing fight(verbal or, in their case, maybe physical) might not be matched till the 1980s.:eek:
 
A lot of people would be accused of being communists. Some would be. But the majority would be merely those who had disagreed with someone. Like the most current McCarthyite, who claims that the Normandy Landings were a communist plot and that U.S. policy from 1934 to 1981 was run by the Soviet Union. And when called in it, they spew vitrol and complain that their opponents are smearing them.

Can I ask who the blinking flip makes the claim that D-Day was a communist plot? Because my jaw just fell open here.
 
Can I ask who the blinking flip makes the claim that D-Day was a communist plot? Because my jaw just fell open here.

I second this question, I have to read the arguments made for this.

This.

And when people called her on it, she did this.

Joker_Facepalm.jpg
 
I don't have word to describe this...

But they don't realize that if the URSS was so capable they had won the Cold War in a couple of decades?
 

Raunchel

Banned
I read those descriptions, and to be honest, I don't understand how anyone can reach such conclusions. It might be clearer in the books, but I'm not going to pay a penny for such insanity. But thank you for sharing it, people have to know that there are those who belief anything.

Incidentally, it could work for an ASB timeline, perhaps.
 
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