Twilight of the Red Tsar

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HIM Dogson

Star Wars already had Imperial officers terrified of being purged; just look at Vader.

Though you could have things like Tarkin refusing to fleet Death Star because he knows that a fate worse than death awaits him should he fail. I'd imagine that the prequels would have the Empire come to power in a more revolutionary way, kind of like my rewrite if you forgive the shameless plug.
 

Lalli

HIM Dogson said:
Though you could have things like Tarkin refusing to fleet Death Star because he knows that a fate worse than death awaits him should he fail. I'd imagine that the prequels would have the Empire come to power in a more revolutionary way, kind of like my rewrite if you forgive the shameless plug.
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Older regime might had overthrown by Palpatine and perhaps Palpatine's predecessor ousted his predecessor. Just wondering how prequel episodes introduce Old Republic. In OTL OR was seemingly equalement of Weimar Republic. And political situation in the galaxy would be bit different. And how Count Dooku would had showed?

And continuing with popular culture I could imaginate that in Indiana Jones movies, if these are made, Nazis would had switched to Soviets and movies might happen in end of 1940's and early 1950's.
 
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chankljp

Donor
KazuyaProta said:
https://i.imgur.com/Q3H13nD.jpg

I wonder what would be the reaction if someone saw this pic on the Red Tsar verse.

...especially a Jew
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Well, if we go 'rule lawyer' for a moment, ITTL the Soviets never actually gassed any Jews if I remember the details correctly.

...They merely starved them to death, locked them up in gulags, machine-gunned them in mass graves, tortured them, drop white phosphorus on them, send funding and support to people who want to kill them, etc... But no gassing. Hence the poster was technically correct.
 

Bookmark1995

Banned
chankljp said:
Well, if we go 'rule lawyer' for a moment, ITTL the Soviets never actually gassed any Jews if I remember the details correctly.

...They merely starved them to death, locked them up in gulags, machine-gunned them in mass graves, tortured them, drop white phosphorus on them, send funding and support to people who want to kill them, etc... But no gassing. Hence the poster was technically correct.
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But what is known ITTL was there being a systemic plan to destroy Jews.

Hence it is called a Second Holocaust.

Although honestly it is better to call this a pogrom, because this is old school Russian antisemitism done on a bureaucratic, industrial level.

KazuyaProta said:
https://i.imgur.com/Q3H13nD.jpg

I wonder what would be the reaction if someone saw this pic on the Red Tsar verse.

...especially a Jew
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I think centrism ITTL could be seen as a professional way of saying "let evil happen."
 

KazuyaProta

Are you sure? Because if IOT, Centrists already bring up Nazis and Soviets when discussing extremism, they would do it even more ITTL. If anything, I think Centrism would get even more popular.

In a off-topic side, anyone here did the EP for Stalin in the Complete Monster thread of Tv Tropes? Because I kinda want to rewrite the entry, it feels too short for someone as bad as our dear Iosif.

  • Complete Monster: Josef Stalin, surviving the stroke that killed him in OTL, launches massive purges of Soviet society that wantonly kills hundreds of thousands, either through direct or indirect means such as labor camps. Stalin orders a purge of Jews from Soviet society, persecuting them badly enough to have his actions labeled as the "Soviet Holocaust". Stalin, on a whim, launches a needless war of aggression with China, using chemical, nuclear, and biological weapons that kill well over ten million people. As part of a counter-insurgency policy, Stalin orders much of occupied Chinese territory to be moved into prison camps, with those who resist being murdered and their towns destroyed. Out of prejudice and paranoia, Stalin orders an ethnic cleansing campaign in the Caucasus region and the Baltic states, deporting almost all of the indigenous people into prison camps in Siberia, killing hundreds of thousands.
Too short IMO.
 

Darksider166

Idk, maybe add "His refusal to negotiate and hard line stances during two nuclear crises ends up resulting in WW3 almost happening and the nuclear taboo being broken."
 

Bookmark1995

Banned
Darksider166 said:
Idk, maybe add "His refusal to negotiate and hard line stances during two nuclear crises ends up resulting in WW3 almost happening and the nuclear taboo being broken."
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Well, he didn't actually nuke anyone, so...there is a single bright spot.

How about the fact that he "casually murdered his own subordinates, even the men who helped defend Russia, like Zhukov, ensuring he died as painfully as possible."
 

KazuyaProta

It had a idea for a rewrite tho.

  • Complete Monster: Josef Stalin, surviving the stroke that killed him in OTL, launches massive purges of Soviet society that kills hundreds of thousands, either directly or in labor camps, with many soviet leaders, even loyal veterans, like Zhukov, being killed in gruesome ways. Continuing with the "Doctor's Plot", amplified for his paranoia, Stalin orders a purge of Jews from Soviet society, persecuting them badly enough to have his actions labeled as the "Soviet Holocaust" or "The Great Pogrom". When the Sino-Soviet split happens due to disagreements with Mao Zedong, leading to the Sino-Soviet war, Stalin uses chemical and biological weapons before finishing it by nuking Chinese cities just to spite Mao as Stalin starts to feel his own death in a war that killed 50 million of chinese. Out of prejudice and paranoia, Stalin orders an ethnic cleansing campaign in the Caucasus region and the Baltic states, deporting almost all of the indigenous people into prison camps in Siberia, killing hundreds of thousands. Having destroyed many nations due to ambition, hatred and paranoia, Stalin left a bloody legacy that eventually lead to the collapse of the Soviet Union itself, now the most hated nation of the world.
Done
 
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Historyman 14

Historyman 14

KazuyaProta said:
It had a idea for a rewrite tho.

  • Complete Monster: Josef Stalin, surviving the stroke that killed him in OTL, launches massive purges of Soviet society that kills hundreds of thousands, either directly or in labor camps, with many soviet politicians being killed in gruesome ways. Continuing with the "Doctor's Plot", amplified for his paranoia, Stalin orders a purge of Jews from Soviet society, persecuting them badly enough to have his actions labeled as the "Soviet Holocaust" or "The Great Pogrom". When the Sino-Soviet split happens due to disagreements with Mao Zedong, leading to the Sino-Soviet war, Stalin uses chemical and biological weapons before finishing it by nuking Chinese cities just to spite Mao as Stalin starts to feel his own death in a war that killed 50 million of chinese. Out of prejudice and paranoia, Stalin orders an ethnic cleansing campaign in the Caucasus region and the Baltic states, deporting almost all of the indigenous people into prison camps in Siberia, killing hundreds of thousands. Having destroyed many nations due to ambition, hatred and paranoia, Stalin left a bloody legacy that eventually lead to the collapse of the Soviet Union itself, now the most hated nation of the world.
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With the Baltic States, add 'Saved Lithuania' as it does avoid the same ethnic cleansing of Latvia and Estonia.
 

Darksider166

Maybe also add his purges in the medical field end up backlogging the healthcare industry in the USSR, leading to high infant mortality rates as well as mothers dying from lack of proper care.
 
Historyman 14

Historyman 14

pattontank12 said:
Perhaps Palpatine in this universe's star wars could be vaguely based off of Stalin instead of Hitler. An increasingly insane old man who seized power from his predecessor, only for his own paranoia caused the death of the empire he built.
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pattontank12 said:
The Empire here would be based more on Authoritarianism in general and left wing Totalitarianism in specific. Moffs with Russian accents constantly terrified that they may be the ones purged, waves of Imperial Troopers being used as cannon fodder, labor camps on frozen wastelands and the ever present presence of Imperial Security.
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HonestAbe1809 said:
You could say that there was an element of purging every time Darth Vader force choked an officer for failure.

Maybe a character like Finn could be introduced to show that the rank-and-file soldiers are being brainwashed by the powers-that-be and that not all soldiers fighting for the Empire are evil.



Or maybe Tarkin could be a member of the Rebellion. A former officer who went to the rebellion to avoid being purged with the regime change. It's not like Peter Cushing couldn't do heroic roles as well as villainous roles. He was fantastic as both in the Hammer Dracula and Frankenstein films.

So English accents would be "heroic" whereas Slavic accents would be "villainous".
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HIM Dogson said:
Star Wars already had Imperial officers terrified of being purged; just look at Vader.

Though you could have things like Tarkin refusing to fleet Death Star because he knows that a fate worse than death awaits him should he fail. I'd imagine that the prequels would have the Empire come to power in a more revolutionary way, kind of like my rewrite if you forgive the shameless plug.
Click to expand...

Lalli said:
Older regime might had overthrown by Palpatine and perhaps Palpatine's predecessor ousted his predecessor. Just wondering how prequel episodes introduce Old Republic. In OTL OR was seemingly equalement of Weimar Republic. And political situation in the galaxy would be bit different. And how Count Dooku would had showed?

And continuing with popular culture I could imaginate that in Indiana Jones movies, if these are made, Nazis would had switched to Soviets and movies might happen in end of 1940's and early 1950's.
Click to expand...

Going with this...

TTL Clone Wars was between an aging Monarchy, Republicans (OTL Republic and CIS.) and the "Power of the People". (Imperials.) The Empire is less of a 'Empire' and more of a 'Galactic People's Union'. (USSR.) Outer Rim Worlds suffer from crash-industrializes and being mine for resources to the core.

Dooku would be TTL Vladimir Lenin. Even down to realizing too late the truth of the one closest to them. (Palpatine and Stalin.)
 
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Bbone91

Bbone91

Historyman 14 said:
Going with this...

TTL Clone Wars was between an aging Monarchy, Republicans (OTL Republic and CIS.) and the "Power of the People". (Imperials.) The Empire is less of a 'Empire' and more of a 'Galactic People's Union'. (USSR.) Outer Rim Worlds suffer from crash-industrializes and being mine for resources to the core.

Dooku would be TTL Vladimir Lenin. Even down to realizing too late the truth of the one closest to. (Palpatine and Stalin.)
Click to expand...
Is it wrong that I’d pay good money to see THOSE prequels rather than the wooden acting of the prequels we got?
 

chankljp

Donor
Historyman 14 said:
TTL Clone Wars was between an aging Monarchy, Republicans (OTL Republic and CIS.) and the "Power of the People". (Imperials.) The Empire is less of a 'Empire' and more of a 'Galactic People's Union'. (USSR.) Outer Rim Worlds suffer from crash-industrializes and being mine for resources to the core.
Click to expand...

'Workers and Oppressed Xenos of the Galaxy, Unite! You have nothing to lose but your restraining apparatuses!"

.... After the Galactic People's Union's victory in the Galactic Civil War, General Secretary Palpatine proceed to throw all the aliens that had aided his rise to power into the spice mines of Kessel, brutally purge all the moderates such as Pellaeon (An expy of Mikoyan and Gromyko), loyalists such as Yularen (A Beria expy), and even the war hero Thrawn (Zhukov-expy) from his government via public executions, and invaded the Chiss Ascendancy for daring to complain about his BS policies.
 

KazuyaProta

Thought, what about the OT? A considerably darker story ending with a uber traumatized Luke seeing the remains of multiple plantets destroyed for the GPU before it's ultimate fall?

Fun thing, current SW canon had Palpatine plan to cause a chaotic Imperial civil war after his death, this time, that likely would be the plot itself. Right?
 
akoslows

akoslows

KazuyaProta said:
Thought, what about the OT? A considerably darker story ending with a uber traumatized Luke seeing the remains of multiple plantets destroyed for the GPU before it's ultimate fall?

Fun thing, current SW canon had Palpatine plan to cause a chaotic Imperial civil war after his death, this time, that likely would be the plot itself. Right?
Click to expand...
That would be interesting. This could actually show the GPU committing countless atrocities in a similar way to TTL's Stalin, such as bombing planets until they're uninhabitable (it would be along the lines of what the Protoss did to Mar Sara in the original StarCraft), enslaving countless alien races, using slave labor on countless worlds in the Outer Rim or Unknown Regions as a parallel to the Siberian gulags, and committing genocide against alien races such as the Wookiees, Zabraks, Rodians, Trandoshans, and many others.
 
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