Twilight of the Red Tsar

[KuboCaskett]

The Turner Diaries involves killing all non whites and Jews. The death toll there is like 95% of the worlds population including hardship and subversive killings.

The Diary of Our Victory is the same with anyone non-lower class, almost no racism required (excepting of course the Jews unless it's on an anti-capitalist basis); at this point it doesn't matter if the "undesirable" is of a difference class or race, what matters is the illustration of someone's warped mind regarding how to achieve a "utopia" at the expense of human civilization displayed in those books.

Though come to think of it, I would suggest having that Diary book's name changed so it would be more memorable, such as "Lennon's Diary" or something like that.

 

[aldonius]

I imagine Trotsky et al might be viewed similarly to how we view people like Gregor Strasser.

 

[Das Amerikan]

A Culture Transformed

Russia rises from the ashes. Albiet they're still three-fourths in the hole and they're coming up rather slowly, but still.

Devilspawn

Wow. I did not think the Turner Diaries could get more frightening. Good job!

 

[Bookmark1995]

Russia rises from the ashes. Albiet they're still three-fourths in the hole and they're coming up rather slowly, but still.

ITTL, the ashes are coated in mercury and nuclear waste. And they really haven't risen from anything, as the CNS has yet to prove they won't slip back into corruption and despotism in peace time.

 

[chankljp]

How was it possible that I did not discover this excellent TL for so long? Just spent the last two days reading though the entire thing, all I can say is thank you so much for writing this amazing, yet chilling TL, and I am glad that it is still currently on-going.

 

[Guardian GI]

Why? The Soviets hated homosexuality even more than most of the West; it's likely gay rights in Russia at least may be ahead of the curve.

Russia was utterly wrecked by the final years of Stalin and the war - replacing hundreds of thousands people lost would become top priority. With such population losses, there would be no place for gay rights advocates for many decades afterwards, as they would be seen as obstructing the process of repopulation.... just like in OTL Russia in 2000s.

Also, just like IOTL, the sheer amounts of people going through gulags would bring Russian prison culture into the Russian society... and Russian criminals aren't really fond of homosexuals, to put it mildly.

 

[Magnimik]

How FDR is viewed ITTL by now? There was a mention that he is still viewed as a great president whose reputation is a bit tarnished by Yalta (which is viewed the same as Munich), but it was before the rise of Objectivism in America, and the New Deal was never popular among the American right-wing, to say at least. Besides, after Solzhenitsyn's reports, the image of Soviet crimes became more clear for the world and after that Soviet Union did to the countries which were "traded" in Yalta, I would expect that Roosevelt's reputation became much worse.

 

[The Karavoka Man]

Russia was utterly wrecked by the final years of Stalin and the war - replacing hundreds of thousands people lost would become top priority. With such population losses, there would be no place for gay rights advocates for many decades afterwards, as they would be seen as obstructing the process of repopulation.... just like in OTL Russia in 2000s.

Stalin recriminalised homosexuality in 1933, long before WW2 even started, and under Stalin homosexuality was heavily attacked, with thousands jailed, with homosexuality being pushed underground.

Don't attempt to use the Soviet losses in WW2 to excuse communist homophobia.

 

[Lost Freeway]

Don't attempt to use the Soviet losses in WW2 to excuse communist homophobia.

Explaining =/= excusing.

 

[Bookmark1995]

How FDR is viewed ITTL by now? There was a mention that he is still viewed as a great president whose reputation is a bit tarnished by Yalta (which is viewed the same as Munich), but it was before the rise of Objectivism in America, and the New Deal was never popular among the American right-wing, to say at least. Besides, after Solzhenitsyn's reports, the image of Soviet crimes became more clear for the world and after that Soviet Union did to the countries which were "traded" in Yalta, I would expect that Roosevelt's reputation became much worse.

I think it is still mainstream history to consider FDR a good president, but people will think he threw Stalin too many bones. Objectivists would regard FDR as a sell out, but ITTL they are seen as utter jokes by the establishment.

 

[TheHolyInquisition]

Objectivists would regard FDR as a sell out

OTL they view as evil personified, so... slightly better?

but ITTL they are seen as utter jokes by the establishment.

Whereas OTL they are the establishment..

 

[Lost Freeway]

Objectivists would regard FDR as a sell out, but ITTL they are seen as utter jokes by the establishment.

You sure about that?

 

[BigBlueBox]

How FDR is viewed ITTL by now? There was a mention that he is still viewed as a great president whose reputation is a bit tarnished by Yalta (which is viewed the same as Munich), but it was before the rise of Objectivism in America, and the New Deal was never popular among the American right-wing, to say at least. Besides, after Solzhenitsyn's reports, the image of Soviet crimes became more clear for the world and after that Soviet Union did to the countries which were "traded" in Yalta, I would expect that Roosevelt's reputation became much worse.

Viewing Yalta to be the same as Munich is unfair, isn't it? The Allies had a fighting chance at Munich. They didn't at Yalta. Even nukes couldn't stop the Soviets from marching to the Rhine, or possibly even the English Channel.

 

[Lost Freeway]

Viewing Yalta to be the same as Munich is unfair, isn't it? The Allies had a fighting chance at Munich. They didn't at Yalta. Even nukes couldn't stop the Soviets from marching to the Rhine, or possibly even the English Channel.

You think TTL people will care?

 

[Lalli]

Viewing Yalta to be the same as Munich is unfair, isn't it? The Allies had a fighting chance at Munich. They didn't at Yalta. Even nukes couldn't stop the Soviets from marching to the Rhine, or possibly even the English Channel.

Try explain that them.

 

[Das Amerikan]

Viewing Yalta to be the same as Munich is unfair, isn't it? The Allies had a fighting chance at Munich. They didn't at Yalta. Even nukes couldn't stop the Soviets from marching to the Rhine, or possibly even the English Channel.

People ITTL will still do it, regardless if either evil could have been feasibly stopped at the time.

 

[Historyman 14]

I think it is still mainstream history to consider FDR a good president, but people will think he threw Stalin too many bones. Objectivists would regard FDR as a sell out, but ITTL they are seen as utter jokes by the establishment.

I think it is still mainstream history to consider FDR a good president, but people will think he threw Stalin too many bones. Objectivists would regard FDR as a sell out, but ITTL they are seen as utter jokes by the establishment.

Viewing Yalta to be the same as Munich is unfair, isn't it? The Allies had a fighting chance at Munich. They didn't at Yalta. Even nukes couldn't stop the Soviets from marching to the Rhine, or possibly even the English Channel.

Try explain that them.

K said something like this.

To put it simply

Churchill - Loathed and despised by many. appreciation for what he tried to do growing as Germany's threat becomes more apparent.

FDR - Well remembered. More or less OTL. Little worse due to the fact he dragged the US into a "unwinnable" Europe

Stalin - Significantly better. Remembered at this point as a martyr who was crushed by the German jackboot in his attempts to protect the freedom of liberty of the Soviet peoples. His own personal crimes against humanity are significantly sugar coated and extremely downplayed as the US and Soviet media propogates a rosy wine colored image of the "Man of Steel"

So I think he would be remember well, but his image will suffer a lot for being so friendly and trusting of Stalin, and USSR. Churchill in fact would be remember better as the man who saw the threat of the Soviet Union, Stalin, and Communism from the stater and ahead of FDR.

 

[Clandango]

How was it possible that I did not discover this excellent TL for so long? Just spent the last two days reading though the entire thing, all I can say is thank you so much for writing this amazing, yet chilling TL, and I am glad that it is still currently on-going.

Not many maps of it in the Map Thread, if any. I think that is usually the best way for people to get attentoin in or their timelines, even if it acts as a bit of a spoiler. Still, the title for this timeline is rather subdued. Seems more like an actual book than a work of online fiction.

So I think he would be remember well, but his image will suffer a lot for being so friendly and trusting of Stalin, and USSR. Churchill in fact would be remember better as the man who saw the threat of the Soviet Union, Stalin, and Communism from the stater and ahead of FDR.

People may be a bit concerned about the public works programs of FDR, but they may forgive him to an extent. People calling themselves "Progressive" earlier in American history will be put under suspicion. Theodore Roosevelt would be given a pass, especially given his personal hostility to Russia and the Kaiser. Henry Wallace, though? His run for president as part of the Progressive Party (not sure if it has continuity from the Bull Moose one) might taint the word, while FDR gets the accolades for having booted him before he died. Might be suspicions emerging that FDR was being slowly poisoned, worked to death, whatever so that Wallace would get to be president and Stalin's useful idiot. They might tie it into how Stalin never went far for Big Three Conferences, people claiming he was trying to drain FDR further. And for the Casalbamnca conference between Churchill and Roosevelt, I believe there was problems with a naval vessel firing upon the President's ship twice. Conspiracies aho! Ahh, and various demagogues like Huey Long, Father Coughlin, etc will be painted as commies.


Ahhh, and anyone got a TVTropes account? Last time I checked this thread's page, it mentioned a guy being tried under law as against socialists because of national socialism, underscoring the second word. Or something. Pretty sure he was tried for Holocaust denial.

 

[Kammada]

You think TTL people will care?

Some don't care even IOTL (most of the Central and Eastern Europe don't) and roll togeter Munich and Yalta-Potsdam into the Western Betrayal concept, so it will be even more so ITTL.

 

[Magnimik]

Ahhh, and anyone got a TVTropes account? Last time I checked this thread's page, it mentioned a guy being tried under law as against socialists because of national socialism, underscoring the second word. Or something. Pretty sure he was tried for Holocaust denial.

OK, I removed this entry, as it seems strange to me as well, put Neo-Communists instead.