Twilight of the Red Tsar
- Thread starter Napoleon IV
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QueerSpear
Banned
However, China was not depopulated and with its large population it can recover, especially because it's a resource-rich nation.
BigBlueBox
Banned
On what grounds could Israel demand reparations? A state demanding money due to the murder of people who were not its citizens is unprecedented in international law. Even OTL, Israel only received reparations from West Germany to compensate it for resettling the Holocaust survivors, paying individual Jews, and for stolen property. And that only happened because West Germany agreed, no court could compel Germany to pay Israel. Warsaw Pact states could simply claim that the Communist governments were illegitimate regimes and thus absolve themselves of any responsibility. The ones that still had governments-in-exile from WW2 could simply claim to be the successor of the government-in-exile. Vichy France was the legal and legitimate government of France and the successor of the Third Republic. On its own initiative, it decided to hand over Jews to the Germans. But France never paid any reparations to anyone for that until a decade or so ago. So how could the Warsaw Pact countries be expected to pay reparations to either Israel or the actual victims? America wouldn't pressure them, the countries are too destroyed to offer anything anyways. I would also expect nationalism in these countries to be even higher than the during the interbellum and World War 2, thanks to the revolutionary wars and the influx of refugees.
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The money related to settlement like West Germany. The 'stick' as it were was simply the international denunciation of Israel, which has far higher international political capital; if they accuse an Eastern bloc nation of not living up to its responsibilities in bringing the practitioners of the Holocaust to justice, that will be taken extremely seriously by the wider world. When you say 'West Germany agreed', the logic is similar; the Israelis are standing on too high a moral high ground to publicly challenge. The young nations are still fragile and not interested in a pointless fight.
The number of Jews left in the Warsaw Pact nations is negligible at best; hardly a crippling monetary commitment, so Israel is not sacrificing much, but that's the point. The 'carrot' of reduced reparations was mostly a minor concession. Israel is wealthy enough to easily accommodate the survivors; it's just about making the deal seem like a good one to the Eastern bloc. Saying that you're getting something in return (no Holocaust guilt, diplomatic support from Israel, saved money - no matter how illusive these things are) for Mossad agents investigating alongside the police is much easier to sell than "Here's Mossad agents - listen to them."
BigBlueBox
Banned
I can accept accept Israel using its soft power to convince nations to cooperate with them, but I doubt any nation would be willing to fork over any reparation money. Giving reparation money is an admission of guilt, and none of these countries will admit guilt, not when the people in charge of them fought against the Communists. And they don't have any money to give anyways. Transferring the reparations to Russia won't work either because expecting the CNS to pay up would be like milking a dead radioactive cow. And if the West has learned anything from the several decades, it's that demanding reparations from a ruined country causes radical nationalism.
Bookmark1995
Banned
*****
But I wonder how this will effect the international attitude toward the Russian-dominated Portuguese colonies. Because of a large number of the people are former Russia communists, particularly agents of the Soviet Pogrom, they will be more despised than UDI Rhodesia.
(@Sorairo, the part about Hungary contradicts my contribution about Syndicalist Hungary, where they do end up paying substantial reparations to Israel in order to shed the image they will become Stalin part 2).
The implication was that they paid the money at a later date of their voilition.
Owing to your insistent constructive criticism I'll change that.
Has it really been that long? Jesus. I'll try to get another update out soon.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Yes, only set in the early 1970s, and probably involving Israelis instead of American Jews.
Honestly, the world in terms of economics seems better off in the long-run in general on paper. China is advancing relatively quickly and will probably soon be democratic, no Khemer Rouge, South Vietnam industrialises, no North Korea, no West Bank occupation, the Warsaw Pact is liberated twenty years early, there'll probably be less Third World proxy wars etc. The world could honestly be more economicaly advanced than OTL, and probably much less dictators too.
Granted, the cost to get to that point (Second Holocaust, regular nuclear war, Yugoslavia replicated over a whole continent etc) are a steep price to pay to say the least.
We are talking about the death of at least the 10% of the overall population in the various direct conflict and at this you need to add the maimed and wounded (and in all three categories the young males will be the most numerous)...plus the consequences of the famine and plague on the developement of the new generations (think France post WWI...only much much worse)
After that you need to consider the widespread destruction of industrial center and general infrastructure all that almost shiny new at the time of the war, all the inexploded bombs and ammunitions, the political and social division and consequences of the korena war, sino-soviet war and civil war and of the soviet civil war (something will naturally spread in China)
In the end while she can recover it will be a decades long job and by ITTL 2017 she will not be the emerging superpower of OTL but just and up and coming developing nation with no overpopulation problem.
No. No he didn't. He deserved a fair trial, like everybody else.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I imagine he begged for one in his final moments, only for his Mossad captors to coldly tell him ,"so did your victims".
If we believe that people who act unjustly should be treated contrary to the principles of justice, that's the sort of reasoning that leads to there being no such thing as justice. Otherwise, why not murder murderers and rape rapists?
Nah. Everyone deserves a fair trial, even if the verdict is a foregone conclusion. "But you did a bad thing, so that makes it good to do the same bad thing if it's being done against you" is vengeance, the enemy of justice.
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