Twilight of the Red Tsar
- Thread starter Napoleon IV
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Whoever will win the civil war, will rule over a pile of ashes; sure, since they've been nuking mid-sized and small strategic targets and not the main population centers, there won't be a complete collapse of any kind of government, but nothing good can come out of such a liberal use of nuclear weapons.
I wonder if the Idel-Ural ASSRs will simply decide to declare their independence rather than join the new CNS Russia, by themselves or in a federation.
I wonder if the Idel-Ural ASSRs will simply decide to declare their independence rather than join the new CNS Russia, by themselves or in a federation.
They could try, but it would be difficult to make a viable state. The Idel-Ural region is completely surrounded by Russia, which if they seceded is likely to be hostile. There's also a significant Russian population (the only one where Russians were less than 40% of the population in the 1970 census is Chuvashia) who won't like the idea of being in another state.
Only after WWII. Probably wise, given what Stalin did with the Leningrad Affair... Though I imagine a single soldier killing loads of Germans in Stalingrad where Stalin could take all the credit of leadership was less of a threat than the populace of the former capital managing to hold back the Germans for years.
I've started reading this excellent TL a few days ago and am currently on page 153, so please no spoilers should someone respond to this. Most of my thoughts when reading it were already pointed out by other commenters after the chapters.
Just got one addendum: Reading about the cultural impact of all this, I can't help but wonder how things would look, if the scenario in TTL was combined with a "Neutral Italy in WW2" scenario, especially one where Mussolini takes in a steadily increasing number of Jewish refugees to further distance himself from Hitler.
Might this give future student radicals wanting something to believe in the necessary excuse to whitewash "real Fascism"? With by 2017 Fascist sympathizing students found around most western universities insisting how everyone to the left of them is "just like Stalin"?
Just got one addendum: Reading about the cultural impact of all this, I can't help but wonder how things would look, if the scenario in TTL was combined with a "Neutral Italy in WW2" scenario, especially one where Mussolini takes in a steadily increasing number of Jewish refugees to further distance himself from Hitler.
Might this give future student radicals wanting something to believe in the necessary excuse to whitewash "real Fascism"? With by 2017 Fascist sympathizing students found around most western universities insisting how everyone to the left of them is "just like Stalin"?
that would be a very interesting scenario. instead of fascism being discredited, communism is instead like that.
Jews would be iffy, especially since the Germans didn't let them take anything more than pocket change and a change of clothes with them while leaving. I think he would be happy taking the Poles. If the Soviets didn't invade long enough and the poles got a redoubt in Galicia going, or withdrew through Romania... Well, maybe some women and children who left with them would like to settle in East Africa or Libya. Managing to also scoop up Balts, Czechs, and Germans would be helpful as their hostility to each other might work out in his favor and allowing Italian to become a lingua franca among the various colonies. Though of course farmers might not be the people who succeed to flee from those places.
Whose to say there even will be a Russia by the end of this?
Why won't the Communists, facing defeat in the face, unleash their nuclear arsenal for the CNS to do the same? Everything from the Baltics to Vladivostok is left glowing - Stalin's final legacy.
Obviously a pretty dark ending if that's the case.
Why won't the Communists, facing defeat in the face, unleash their nuclear arsenal for the CNS to do the same? Everything from the Baltics to Vladivostok is left glowing - Stalin's final legacy.
Obviously a pretty dark ending if that's the case.
It's a gift for Soviet propaganda, they can now argue that the CNS are more interested in destroying Russia than saving it.
Well, the Soviets are really not any better at this point.
At this point, I can see both sides collapsing, or whoever wins fall apart soon after, and thus no leadership, or order of any-kind in Russia.
But that would prevent them from using tactical nuclear weapons against the CNS themselves, which I'd expect Soviet generals would be begging for permission to do. All but the most ardent anti-communists would have to admit that it isn't "crossing a line" to do something against one's enemy that one's enemy is doing against oneself.
Indeed. Rather more realistic than an earlier suggestion that the Communists nuke Stalingrad while they were still in it rather than face defeat. I actually wonder which breakaway republics managed to get hold of nukes for themselves. And what the former Warsaw Pact will do about those still on their land, lest they be caught in the crossfires.
It looks increasingly likely that the Soviets will also start using tactical nukes if the CNS is already using them as an equaliser, although they could still claim the rather dubious moral highground of not having used them first.
And I'd expect the Soviets to have quite a lot more nukes than the rebels.
Unless the rebels have somehow managed to seize a large proportion of the USSR's nuclear stockpile, it sounds like letting this genie out of its bottle was a very, very bad idea.
Has the genie already been let loose since the ATL Korean War?
Use of nuclear weapons in one war doesn't mean nuclear weapons necessarily have to be used in every war (though it does make it less taboo), or else that would have happened in OTL because of what the Americans did.
If it's true that the CNS were the first to use nuclear weapons in the CNS-USSR conflict, well, I think that was not at all wise, for the reason stated above.
BigBlueBox
Banned
The CNS did use the nuclear weapons first, and the Soviets have already retaliated. Read the chapter titled "The Offensive of Victory".
BananaJoe
Banned
[I won't lie, this is definitely me when I'm LIBERATING RUSSIA FROM THE RED PLAGUE](
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But enough of that, a serious question, what is Eisenhower doing while this whole entire "Stalin goes nuts and drives the USSR into ruin."? I have only read the thread marks and not read questions so I apologise if this have already been covered.
Also, how do I get blue text?
But enough of that, a serious question, what is Eisenhower doing while this whole entire "Stalin goes nuts and drives the USSR into ruin."? I have only read the thread marks and not read questions so I apologise if this have already been covered.
Also, how do I get blue text?
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