For all the talk about whether celebrating V.E day would still be around, I think a much better idea would be to turn the day into a Pacifism Day where Russians commemorate all who have died in war and state murder. Seems like a decent enough compromise that doesn't condemn WW2 soldiers for trying to save their race from extinction and slavery, while not letting it seem like a celebration of Communism or Russian imperialism.
Twilight of the Red Tsar
- Thread starter Napoleon IV
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- dystopia stalin lives
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Bookmark1995
Banned
No, but they will be dedicated to stamping out any symbols of Marxism they can't put in a museum. The point is that the hammer and sickle may be as despised as the swastika.
That's actually a pretty good idea. Instead of abolishing the holiday, create a non-communist version of it.
No. Well before his stroke, Stalin was already deporting whole ethnic groups (Volga Germans and Crimean Tatars) locking people in Gulags, persecuting Jews (The Night of the Murdered Poets), slaughtering his old political allies (Zinoviev and Kemenev).
After his stroke, Stalin just became, you know, "more Stalinist".
But according to the last update it seems that the soviets are to win the civil war; in this case the party might try to save the union by promoting a "different" version of socialism, with the Hammer and the sickle, but trying to dissassociate them from Stalin
Bookmark1995
Banned
So far, they've only obliterated two cities that weren't really of strategic value, that doesn't mean the war is over. The same update indicated the Soviets pulled out of Lithuania
Like the tsar, they refused any reform until it was too late to stop the violence from spreading, so I doubt they would craeate any "different" socialism.
ITTL, a lot of the dirty secrets have come out into the open, and it would be unlikely any surviving Soviet government would allow them to be released.
Not really. As others have mentioned pre-stroke Stalin committed a lot of atrocities and set the stage for much of what post-stroke Stalin did (remember that the Soviet Holocaust was being planned before Stalin suffered a stroke). However there will be some debate as to what Stalin would have done during specific crises (like the Suez Crisis) if he had been of sound mind.
The Unveiling
Excerpt from A History of the Soviet Union by Robert Service
With Moscow in their hands the Council of National Salvation had access to a treasure trove of documents going back to the Lenin years. Some of the documents were treasures in a purely historical sense, for example unpublished photographs of top Soviet leaders going about their daily lives. However, the documents also contained the secrets of the Soviet Union, revealing everything from foreign intelligence operations to the personal correspondence of Stalin himself. The Council moved quickly to compile this information and unveil it to the world, hoping that the revelations contained therein would sink the Soviet Union. The man responsible for editing these document was a dissident writer named Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Solzhenitsyn was himself a victim of Stalinism, having spent over a decade in the Gulags. After he returned to freedom in 1960 he began a 7-year quest to write a history of the Gulags[1], and it was this project that earned him the position of editor. He was assisted by an unlikely source: Stalin’s former henchman Georgy Malenkov. After the August Revolution Malenkov, who had until that point been spending his retirement in a dacha outside of Moscow, was arrested and, in an ironic twist of fate, was imprisoned in the Lubyanka building. Malenkov was aware that his complicity in Stalin’s crimes virtually guaranteed a death sentence, and he offered to work with Solzhenitsyn as a desperate effort to save his skin. Naturally, Malenkov’s role was hidden from the public, and it was only on his deathbed that Solzhenitsyn revealed his collaboration with the former Soviet cadre.
The “Report on the Crimes of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics” (colloquially known as the “Solzhenitsyn Report”) was released in three volumes over the course of 1967-1969. The first volume dealt with the Soviet repression system, including the Gulags, the purges, the Soviet Holocaust, etc. The second volume dealt with World War II, as well as the wars in China and Eastern Europe, while the third volume detailed Soviet intelligence and black ops missions from the Cheka onward. In addition to seeing the inner workings of the Soviet Union for the first time the world came to learn of things such as the use of biological weapons in China (confirming what many had suspected about the Great Smallpox Outbreak). Worse still for the Soviets the report gave indisputable proof about the role of the current Soviet leadership in these crimes. For example, personal correspondence between Stalin and Kulakov showed that Kulakov had worked to over-fulfill execution quotas while on assignment in the Urals. While the world hardly needed more excuses to condemn the Soviet Union, these revelations created a situation where a Soviet victory went from bad to unacceptable.
Excerpt from Syndicalism in Russia by John Emmanuel
The August Revolution brought about a rebirth of anarchism and syndicalism in Russia. One of the early leaders of the syndicalist movement was Nikolai Ryzhkov, who had become familiar with the ideology while imprisoned. Along with the writer Varlam Shalamov (who had recently returned to Moscow) Ryzhkov started the newspaper Krasniy i Chyorniy (Red and Black), which quickly became the focal point of the Russian syndicalist scene. Several syndicalist unions sprung up, and by mid-1968 they had coalesced into the Union of Russian Workers (SRR). At that time there were about 150,000 syndicalists in Russia, with offshoots in Ukraine, Estonia, and Moldova. From the beginning there was a divide between the syndicalists as to tactics. Ryzhkov, Shalamov, and the more militant members believed that only through violent revolution would syndicalism come to rule Russia, while the other faction, led by Mikhail Lapshin, advocated for peaceful methods similar to those used in Western Europe. What is remarkable about these two factions is that they managed to stay united for several years, even as the increased militancy of Ryzhkov’s group began to alienate the moderates.
The relationship between the syndicalists and the Council of National Salvation was incredibly strained, mostly due to a difference in ideology and tactics. The syndicalists saw the Council as a bourgeoisie government, and believed that another revolution was needed. As Ryzhkov put it “For now we sup with the bourgeoisie now, but once the Communists have been driven out it is clear that there isn’t room in Russia for both of us.” Even while the war was going the syndicalists often created trouble for the government. Following the August Revolution, the Council of National Salvation had decided that to maintain state ownership of all industries, to avoid economic disruption, at least until after the war was over. The syndicalists refused to accept this, and advocated occupying that the workers occupy their workplaces and run things themselves. This led to a series of battles between workers and the police/army. The syndicalists also were one the first political groups (after the neo-fascist Black Front) to create their own paramilitaries, known as the Black Guards[2]. Although the Black Guards were nominally created to defend against the Soviets they quickly turned into street brawlers, fighting paramilitaries of the Black Front and other far-right and nationalist groups.
Tensions between the syndicalists and the government finally reached a breaking point in August 1969. On August 12th Black Front leader Nikolai Tsorkan was shot dead during a rally at Red Square. The assassin was caught, and told police that leading figures in the SRR, including Ryzhkov and Shalamov, had ordered the attack. Naturally these men were arrested and brought in for questioning. The Moscow branch of the SRR took to the streets, attempting to break into the Lubyanka prison to rescue their leaders. What followed was a spectacularly brutal riot. After the police drove them away from the prison the syndicalists moved on Red Square, hoping to take the Kremlin. There they met Black Front members who were holding a vigil for their fallen leader; the two groups began to clash. With the police unable to restore order the army had to be called in, and ultimately around 260 people were killed. The government had finally reached the limits of its patience for the syndicalists, and issued a ban on the SRR and the Black Guards. Thousands were taken into custody and many were deported to remote parts of Russia (for example Ryzhkov ended up spending the rest of the war in Noyabrsk). To further weaken the syndicalists the government reached out to the moderates, offering them the ability to stay aboveground in exchange for their collaboration. Disgusted by the militants’ actions Lapshin and many of the moderates agreed, forming the Union of Free Workers (SSR).
Excerpt from Political Parties of the Soviet Civil War by William Clinton
Appendix A: List of major political parties and organizations of Soviet Civil War-era Russia:
The Left:
The Union of Russian Workers: Syndicalist trade union founded in May 1968. Notable for being the first syndicalist organization in post-Soviet Russia. They had a propensity for violent strikes and insurrections, which ultimately led to their banning in August 1969. Paramilitary wing: the Black Guards.
Union of Free Workers: Splinter group from the Union of Russian Workers. They rejected the use of violence in favor of a strategy of creating syndicalist spaces after the war, and uses the success of those to spread syndicalism across Russia. In January of 1970 they were given a seat on the Council of National Salvation, the only syndicalist movement to do so.
Social Democratic Party: Political party founded after the August Revolution by writer Andrei Sinyavsky and poet Yuri Galanskov. It was modeled after Social Democratic parties in Western Europe, and throughout the war was one of the largest parties in Russia.
Liberal Party: Political party founded after the August Revolution by dissident Andrei Sakharov. Advocated for free market reforms, democracy, and the humane treatment of Soviet prisoners. Frequent clashes with the conservative and military wings of the Council of National Salvation led Sakharov to resign in January 1970, triggering a shakeup of the Council’s membership.
Agrarian People’s Party: A political party focused on agrarianism (essentially the belief that the rural way of life is superior and should be the model for the nation). Despite having a strong base of support in rural Russia they were only added to the Council of National Salvation in January 1970.
Communist Party of the Soviet Union: Throughout the war many Russians in rebel territory remained loyal to the Soviet Union, and engaged in terrorist or spy activities to fight the rebels.
The Right
Orthodox Democratic Party: A center-right political party based on the principles of the Russian Orthodox Church, particularly on social issues. By the end of the war it was the largest political party in Russia, thanks in part to the revival of the Orthodox Church.
League of Russian Conservatives: A Russian conservative party formed out of a union of ten different conservative parties in November 1967. Although at one point it was the largest party in Russia it slowly lost ground to the Orthodox Democrats.
Rodina: A right-wing populist party along the lines of the Poujadists in France. Advocated for Russian nationalism and anti-elitism. Paramilitary wing: Pamyat[3]
The Black Front: A neo-Fascist political party founded by Nikolai Tsorkan. Opposed the existence of the Council of National Salvation and advocated “Russia for Russians.” A series of hate crimes and violent street clashes was linked to the group, causing it to be banned in September 1969. Paramilitary wing: the Russian Guard.
[1] IOTL this became The Gulag Archipelago
[2] The Black Guards were named after an anarchist organization that existed during the Russian Revolution
[3] IOTL Pamyat was an extreme right-wing society that later evolved into a variety of extreme right and Neo-Nazi movements.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I can imagine Kulakov sitting in his office, yanking on his hair and cursing Solzhenitsyn, as the former prisoner gleefully destroys the good name of the Soviet Union. I bet Kulakov has tried to run his own counter-propaganda campaign, but I highly doubt it is in anyway effective.
Solzhenitsyn must be very happy too, as his former oppressor, Malenkov, is now clinging to him to be saved from a death sentence.
It appears that Russia's political scene is far from stable, and if a new government is not formed quickly enough, the ground will be set for another strongman to come to power.
So is the Salvation Council getting military and food aid from the Knowland administration, now that they've proven themselves to be trying to be ridding themselves of Stalinism?
Solzhenitsyn must be very happy too, as his former oppressor, Malenkov, is now clinging to him to be saved from a death sentence.
It appears that Russia's political scene is far from stable, and if a new government is not formed quickly enough, the ground will be set for another strongman to come to power.
So is the Salvation Council getting military and food aid from the Knowland administration, now that they've proven themselves to be trying to be ridding themselves of Stalinism?
A Salvation Council whose political landscape spans from moderate syndicalist to conservative, along with fringes including fascism and hardline syndicalism will have a difficult time to organise the afterwar.
And how is reacting the diasporas? Most of the February Revolution actors are still alive, such as Kerensky; Julius Martov, a leading Menshevik, published a newspaper which lasted until 1965, the Russian All-Military Union is still there, without forgetting about the Baltics and the Ukrainians activists who departed after 1945.
After all this, some exilees might have regained importance some had lost wince the 1920s and are busy creating channels between foreign powers and insurgents.
And how is reacting the diasporas? Most of the February Revolution actors are still alive, such as Kerensky; Julius Martov, a leading Menshevik, published a newspaper which lasted until 1965, the Russian All-Military Union is still there, without forgetting about the Baltics and the Ukrainians activists who departed after 1945.
After all this, some exilees might have regained importance some had lost wince the 1920s and are busy creating channels between foreign powers and insurgents.
So it looks like this is going to be a long war then given the dates mentioned (1967-1970 and potentially beyond), I'm now curious as to how the first Soviet counter offensive went.
That was an interesting look at the Russian political scene and I think its fair to speculate that the documents releases by the rebels might have connived a few countries to support them.
Very good update and looking foreword to more.
On a completely different note I've just realised that without the 1967 six day war Jordan still owns the West bank so theoretically the worst aspect of the modern conflict can be avoided.
That was an interesting look at the Russian political scene and I think its fair to speculate that the documents releases by the rebels might have connived a few countries to support them.
Very good update and looking foreword to more.
On a completely different note I've just realised that without the 1967 six day war Jordan still owns the West bank so theoretically the worst aspect of the modern conflict can be avoided.
You don't think Israel won't use West support in getting the West Bank and the rest of Jerusalem?
They have no reason to attack Jordan as the ruling family there aren't actually antagonistic and have only ever been forced into attacking Israel out of fear of being invaded by Jordan's neighbours, (namely Nasser who is now gone).
Edit Further at this time I believe the leading philosophy was land could be traded for peace and the settler movement doesn't have the support it does today and perhaps it might not even kick off TTL.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I agree with you about Jordan being a reluctant antagonist, especially since ITTL Zionism is an unquestioned good, but ol'Qutb could drag the Arab world into a war with Israel. He'll pray upon the humiliation Egyptians went through in 1958, plus continued British ownership of the Suez, to start another war.
Still, East Jerusalem would be nice to have. Jordan can have the West Bank.
The Hashemites would have even less reason and motivation to follow a bunch of Islamist fanatics into war against Israel. In fact, you might even see the Israelis and Jordanians cooperating with each other against Egypt!
True I think the question is how threatened will the Jordanians feel by him? They feared Nasser (and other Pan Arabists like Syria) as their cousins were overthrown by Pan Arabist movements. ol'Qutb will probably have only himself as I doubt Syria at this time will follow a religious extremist so Jordan won't defacing the pressure it did OTL so can ignore Egypt.
Maybe however I think having a non hostile neighbour will be better than East Jerusalem.
I agree expect for open co-operation as the Hashemites don't want to inflame there population too much.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Again, the Hashemites were pragmatic, but it took several disasters (The Six Day War, Black September) before Jordanians realized how pointless waging war on their Jewish neighbor was, and even longer for them to bury the hatchet. So far, those disasters haven't yet, but who knows.
Yes, it will ultimately depend on what Qutb does. If he's just interested in an Islamic Egypt (as the Muslim Brotherhood), than Jordanians won't be worried. If he sells guns to the Palestinians in order to spite the Israelis, than he is a danger to them.
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