Turtledove's "The Big Switch"

I'm new to this forum. I would like to discuss "The Big Switch." It may have already been discussed to death here. If so, is there a way to find the threads on it? Would it be of interest to discuss it even so? It's kind of hard to buy the big switch, if you know what I mean. It ain't exactly just Napoleon deciding he wants Spain:D (The closest real life thing I can think of.)
 
The first one was readable and original.
The second started to degenerate into Turtledovian cookie cutter characters and the same repeated cliches and slow story.
The third had all the faults of the second and combined them with a laughably implausible plot twist and a typical failure to comprehend British politics and psyche in the 1940s.

I nearly stopped reading when we met the Yorkshireman called 'Jock'. I wish I had.
 
This happens only in an ATL where the Domination of Draka uses the Nazis as puppets and induces the Stone Dogs in the Allies. In other words not outside a really warped Crack!TL.
 
I don't see what the problem is really, it's an entirely believable and shocking plot twist. If Gods divine intervention actually kept Germany's industrial base from imploding whilst fighting a two front war against superior and more numerous opponents, the British and French would be mad not to switch sides!
 
The first one was readable and original.
The second started to degenerate into Turtledovian cookie cutter characters and the same repeated cliches and slow story.
The third had all the faults of the second and combined them with a laughably implausible plot twist and a typical failure to comprehend British politics and psyche in the 1940s.

I nearly stopped reading when we met the Yorkshireman called 'Jock'. I wish I had.

None of them are remotely plausible, however. 1938 Germany defeating Czechoslovakia is implausible. Defeating Czechoslavakia, France, and the UK is plain Crack!TL territory. Defeating Czechoslovakia and then getting the UK and France to join it in an invasion of the USSR together with Poland? Into outright stupidity.
 

ccdsah

Donor
None of them are remotely plausible, however. 1938 Germany defeating Czechoslovakia is implausible. Defeating Czechoslavakia, France, and the UK is plain Crack!TL territory. Defeating Czechoslovakia and then getting the UK and France to join it in an invasion of the USSR together with Poland? Into outright stupidity.

I don't think Germany defeating Czechoslovakia in 1938 is ASB; in OTL Poland and Hungary broke off pieces of Czechoslovakia, also in Slovakia there was a strong tright wing nationalistic movement that sided with Nazis; maybe France and UK stay out of the war and Czechoslovakia will face 3 enemies instead of Germany alone, plus internal turmoil; so no 1938 Cezh defeat is not ASB at all
 
I don't think Germany defeating Czechoslovakia in 1938 is ASB; in OTL Poland and Hungary broke off pieces of Czechoslovakia, also in Slovakia there was a strong tright wing nationalistic movement that sided with Nazis; maybe France and UK stay out of the war and Czechoslovakia will face 3 enemies instead of Germany alone, plus internal turmoil; so no 1938 Cezh defeat is not ASB at all

Germany in 1938 has to defeat a huge army with very good weapons very strongly motivated to fight. This is not a good thing for them. This is an ATL scenario, not OTL. I can't see Poland in particular wanting to fight for Hitler against the Czechs.
 
The early start to the war in '38 isn't the issue I have; it's that after the first chapter in the first volume where we see the alt-Munich we never get any high level insight again. Frankly for much of the book I wasn't sure what the heck was happening in the war. would it have hurt to have a viewpoint character pick up a newspaper? Or give some insight into the big picture?
I was sufficiently put off to skip the second book and the 'twist' in 'The Big Switch makes me glad I did.

How can anyone take the idea of Britain changing sides seriously? Especially in war where the Germans are bogged down in a losing battle?
 
Implausible yes - impossible no

Czechoslovakia had fortified only its German borders. When Germany rook over Austria the Czech part was surrounded on three parts. Slovakia was only reluctant member of Czechoslovakia, so if Germany had to fight for it in 1938 - I believe the war would play out as described in the book.

Germany helping Poland seems plausible (Russia had helped the Czechs).

The Western front is WWI repeated - maybe one could have done a better reearch of capabilities, but I assume its somewhat plausible to assume Germany does not win as easily as IOTL (Case yellow/red).

I would have bought a German/Anglo/French armistice followed by a peace - after all the Germans were fighting for something they got for free in our timeline (Sudetenland) and did not break the Munich agreement as IOTL (taking also the rest of the Czech lands...)

A why fight? attitude would be plausible IMHO (OTL differs enough as Germany HAS broken agreements -more- often and Po(pe)land had "stronger" guarantees than the Czech republic.

But joining against Russia is implausible IMHO.

And the Japanese attack on America comes too soon.
 
Top