Turkey + Azerbaijan

Don Grey

Banned
This is my first thread so be gentile.

I want to now how the republic of Turkey can annex azerbeijan before the soviets get there hands on it. I only except complete annexation answers.

I wanted this because azerbaijan is a small turkic state (pretty much culturaly the same with turkey) that didnt have the power to defend it self and didnt have alot of options either. Other reasons are i dont want that armenian genocidal compaign that happend in the 90's to happen and ofcourse for the oil. I also think it will be a great spring board for relations with other turkic states in central asia. After the soviets collapse the city of baku and the ports in azerbaijan can be used to bring the oil and natural gass of central asia to the western world(coult it turn turkey into a energy corridor). Could it speed the formations and effectivness of the turkish union which normaly today only acts in name and has no power whats so ever or effect on the world stage.

Also i would like to know how this will effect turkey during this time and in the future such as after the soviets fall. Also how will it effect the soviets in world war 2(lose of the oil fields). Will there be any effects felts on the soviets in general and Turkey in general.

Detailed asnwers will be much appreciated
 

Don Grey

Banned
Tukey need toi crush the Armenians fast to get to th Azeri lands.

The armenian invasion was a national effort on the armenians behalf but a minor nuisance on turkeys behalf. I dont think it would be difficult to achive. The area just needs to be focused on so more maybe that could do it.
 
...I want to know how the republic of Turkey can annex Azerbeijan before the soviets get there hands on it...

Somehow prevent the czars from conquering Azerbeijan in the first place?? No idea how you accomplish that one.

Getting the British to make Azerbeijan a British colony after WW ONE. As far as I know the British did occupy Baku for a while, but the Soviets chased them out. Considering Baku would be at the end of a very long and tenuous supply line, it's not easy constructing a scenario that lets the British stay. At bare minimum, Britain would have to stay out of WW ONE, just to conserve its strength and not get bled white in the trenches. But if Britain does stay out, the Germans probably capture Paris and World War One is over by Labor Day. The joys of alternate history.

I wanted this because Azerbaijan is a small turkic state (pretty much culturally the same with turkey) that didnt have the power to defend it self and didn't have a lot of options either. Other reasons are i don't want that Armenian genocidal campaign that happend in the 90's to happen

Do you mean the 1990s, the 1890s, or are you referring to the Armenian genocide at the end of World War One?

Also how will it effect the soviets in world war 2(lose of the oil fields)....

Originally one of the main aims of Operation Blau in 1942 was the capture of the oil fields and refineries at Baku to literally fuel the Nazi war machine. Stalingrad was supposed to be an addendum. It was a Nazi "wet-dream" that Turkey would join Germany as it did in WW ONE. Why Turkey didn't...

The loss of the oil certainly would have been a blow to the Soviets. Whether other oil production from Siberia and Soviet Central Asia would have been sufficient for the Soviets military and civilian needs I have no idea.
 

Don Grey

Banned
Somehow prevent the czars from conquering Azerbeijan in the first place?? No idea how you accomplish that one.

Getting the British to make Azerbeijan a British colony after WW ONE. As far as I know the British did occupy Baku for a while, but the Soviets chased them out. Considering Baku would be at the end of a very long and tenuous supply line, it's not easy constructing a scenario that lets the British stay. At bare minimum, Britain would have to stay out of WW ONE, just to conserve its strength and not get bled white in the trenches. But if Britain does stay out, the Germans probably capture Paris and World War One is over by Labor Day. The joys of alternate history.

Do we realy need to accomplish all this to achive azerbaijan annexation? Maybe the ottomans can take it in ww1. On a side not the army of islam did it on its own. I dont think it would be that defficult

Do you mean the 1990s, the 1890s, or are you referring to the Armenian genocide at the end of World War One?

The one in 1990's

Originally one of the main aims of Operation Blau in 1942 was the capture of the oil fields and refineries at Baku to literally fuel the Nazi war machine. Stalingrad was supposed to be an addendum. It was a Nazi "wet-dream" that Turkey would join Germany as it did in WW ONE. Why Turkey didn't...

The loss of the oil certainly would have been a blow to the Soviets. Whether other oil production from Siberia and Soviet Central Asia would have been sufficient for the Soviets military and civilian needs I have no idea.

This is good to know.
 
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Have the Central Powers win WWI, and the Ottoman Empire conquer Azerbaijan or get it in the peace treaty. Having the Ottomans get Azerbaijan after the Russians take it in the 1820's is very difficult without the above POD.
 

Don Grey

Banned
Have the Central Powers win WWI, and the Ottoman Empire conquer Azerbaijan or get it in the peace treaty. Having the Ottomans get Azerbaijan after the Russians take it in the 1820's is very difficult without the above POD.

The problam is i wanted the republic to keep have it. Maybe if the ottomans take in in ww1 then then the history goes along the otl with one diffrence being the nationalist forces also take azerbeijan after fighting of the armenians.
 
Hmm, AFAIK the Azeri political leaders at the time also claimed Dagestan, what was then the Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus, and (I think) Iranian Azarbaijan. Will Turkey also go for those areas as well?
 
Getting it is easy, because the Ottomans conquered it in 1918 historically. Keeping it is the problem.

Perhaps if the Soviets did something that scared the bejeezus out of everyone? The problem is the oil. Everyone wanted it, and the Entente will apply heavy pressure on the Ottomans to leave; if it was a certainty that Germany would not get it, and the Soviets would if the Ottomans didn't, then perhaps it could be arranged.
 
Maybe have the Ottomans stay out of the war, then declare a protectorate and de facto annex it in the aftermath of the Russian collapse?
 
The republic getting it is tricky. By the time the Turkish-Armenian war really got going, the Soviets - Turkey's ally - were already in Baku, having entered Azerbaijan with little opposition from an army that was busy fighting the Armenians, and had already crushed the nationalist insurrection at Ganja.

The Ottomans is easier. In fact, if the Ottoman Empire stays out of the war and Russia still breaks down at some point (getting it to do so during the war is much more difficult now since Ottoman neutrality is a big boon to the Entente, but Tsarist Russia wasn't the most stable polity), it's the obvious outcome.
 

Don Grey

Banned
Hmm, AFAIK the Azeri political leaders at the time also claimed Dagestan, what was then the Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus, and (I think) Iranian Azarbaijan. Will Turkey also go for those areas as well?

No they wont just modern day azerbaijan its already hard enough keeping
that. But if you have a "realistic" way of the republic getting those then im listening.
 
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