Tupi-Speaking Brazil

In the early colonial era of Brazil, two simplified versions of the Tupi languages called "lingua geral" were established by the Portuguese to make contact with the Tupi tribes. It was used not only by native peoples, but also by missionaries, colonists, and slaves alike. What if, rather than being subplanted by Portuguese, these dialects (lingua geral paulista and lingua geral amazonica) remain the dominant languages in Brazil to this day, being elevated to a status similar to Guarani in Paraguay?

Perhaps they fuse into one language, maybe one (probably amazonica) takes over the other, or maybe we get two seperate northern and southern countries based on each dialect?
 
Nobody find this interesting? :( A Brazil that speaks a Native American language instead of Portuguese? That would have quite a big affect on history. I'm tempted to try a timeline based on it, but I'd like to hear some other thoughts.
 
Brazil

I can't see this happening, unless there is considerable isolation between Brazil and Portugal. The number of Portuguese colonists would have to remain very small. If there was perhaps some sort of native revolt that was successful, then a different linguistic situation could develop. In Paraguay, the future of the native language is unclear, despite it's wide use.
 
In the early colonial era of Brazil, two simplified versions of the Tupi languages called "lingua geral" were established by the Portuguese to make contact with the Tupi tribes. It was used not only by native peoples, but also by missionaries, colonists, and slaves alike. What if, rather than being subplanted by Portuguese, these dialects (lingua geral paulista and lingua geral amazonica) remain the dominant languages in Brazil to this day, being elevated to a status similar to Guarani in Paraguay?

Perhaps they fuse into one language, maybe one (probably amazonica) takes over the other, or maybe we get two seperate northern and southern countries based on each dialect?

I think it's hard to achieve this one. Eventually the government would push hard to standardize on Portuguese, whether the government is the Portuguese Crown or her successors matters not.
 
Perhaps if there were stronger Native Groups in Brazil? That way Portugese might not penetrate as far. Or Perhpas the Portugese are forced to leave for a whil or neglect Brazil? That way portugese might never get as far.
 
What if the Dutch held on to Brazil, and encouraged lingua geral as a way to diminish loyalty to the Portuguese in the colony? Would the Dutch be willing to work together with the Jesuits?
 
What if the Dutch held on to Brazil, and encouraged lingua geral as a way to diminish loyalty to the Portuguese in the colony? Would the Dutch be willing to work together with the Jesuits?

There are some problems here. The Jesuits, as good Catholics, were completely against those "heretical Jew-lover Calvinists" living in Recife. Also, in the Dutch Brazil the few Tupi tribes that remained in the area were allied to the Portuguese. The Dutch allied themselves with the Tapuias, who didn't speak Tupi.

You can have perhaps a stronger presence of Tupi in Brazil if you get rid of Pombal or avoid the expulsion of the Jesuits (it can works better in the Amazon then in São Paulo, because less European immigrants would live there). But even then Portuguese will be always the official language, and as Guilherme said any government will try to reinforce this.

Even in São Paulo, were nheengatu was the most spoken language in the 17th century it disappeared in more or less a hundred years, due to immigration and the official politics of the government. Only some caracteristics of Tupi remained there in the language until the 19th century, as the tendecy of make the aumentative "çu" instead of the Portuguese "ão" or the diminutive "mirim" instead of "inho", but the language was forgot by the majority of people.

About have more native people to oppose the Portuguese we would need to have a pre-historical POD or delay the European explorations for centuries. When the Portuguese arrived the Tupi in the coast of São Paulo and Rio were starting to form a kind of federation of tribes, but still very weak and messy.

Also, the Tupi were mostly decimated by the Portuguese in 200 years of exploration. The Jesuits were never strong enough to avoid this, and the governamental authorities never really cared. Maybe you could have stronger Tupis with a Spanish colonization of Brazil (not under the Iberian Union, but from the beggining) by having them creating Missions as they with the Guarany in Paraguay.
 
What if the Portuguese never broke free from the Iberian Union? The Dutch hold on to Brazil a little longer, giving the Nheengatu population a little more time to grow by the time the Iberian Union recovers Brazil. Have Brazil be neglected for some time, avoid the persecutions of the Jesuits and Nheengatu, and it never really develops a Portuguese-based identity. In time an independent Brazil would be trilingual in Nheengatu, Spanish, and Portuguese? It would hold on to Nheengatu as a token of national pride in the same way that Guarani is in Paraguay.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
It would hold on to Nheengatu as a token of national pride in the same way that Guarani is in Paraguay.
But in Paraguay it's actually quite practical to acknowledge Guarani, as it is spoken by something like 95% of the population. I can't ever imagine Lingua Geral being so successful in Brazil, even under the best of circumstances (which would undoubtedly be something like Dutch rule, seeing as Lingua Geral could occupy the same position in Brazil as Bahasa Indonesia does in Indonesia)
 
Guarani in Paraguay transgresses class lines, as it is spoken by people of all economic statuses and skin colors. Lingua geral in early colonial Brazil held a similar position, as it was picked up by colonists and slaves in addition to the natives and the missionaries. If early immigrants learned lingua geral, why couldn't later immigrants?
 
Guarani in Paraguay transgresses class lines, as it is spoken by people of all economic statuses and skin colors. Lingua geral in early colonial Brazil held a similar position, as it was picked up by colonists and slaves in addition to the natives and the missionaries. If early immigrants learned lingua geral, why couldn't later immigrants?

A valid question, but I think you're taking the wrong look at it. As you said, this was a language picked up by many colonists, slaves, etc. but not the native language of the people themselves. In many cases, the language would be decided by the most powerful group in a region (in this case, the Portuguese government). In order to have a language like this to be successful, you'd need a large number of people speaking the language as their native tongue (after one or two generations at least) and also a fair number of government supporters. Trying to get them to choose it over Portuguese is unlikely, as the perception of non-European languages during this time was very low.

However, that said it's not impossible to have the language recognized alongside Portuguese, or to have substancial areas where the language remains in use. Just invent some die-hard government offical who pushes recognization of the language through and standardize it as a trade-language between all classes and it might survive.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
However, that said it's not impossible to have the language recognized alongside Portuguese, or to have substancial areas where the language remains in use. Just invent some die-hard government offical who pushes recognization of the language through and standardize it as a trade-language between all classes and it might survive.
Actually, historically speaking, top-down language policies such as this have seldom yielded fruit. Guarani in Paraguay did not enjoy official recognition until relatively recently (in the 1992 Constitution).
 
Suppose some native tribes, after the worst of the plagues have passed, convert and start to work as mercenaries for portuguese settlements. Could they manage to settle down within the early settlements, bringing their language with them?
 
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