Tsarist California Gold Rush?

Fort Ross in OTL was a Russian outpost in California during the early Nineteenth Century, used primarily as an agricultural center for Russia's northern Pacific colonies and as a fur trapping post. I recall watching a documentary on the History Channel that mentioned Fort Ross was relatively close to the California gold fields. What are the possible implications of a Russian trapper or explorer discovering gold in the nearby area? I apologize if this has been discussed before, couldnt seem to find anything with the search.
 

The Sandman

Banned
The Royal Navy finds a sudden reason to pay a visit to San Francisco? The Spanish try to reassert their claims to the region, or if after 1821 the Mexicans do, only to find that none of the European nations care? The US now has an added reason to head westward ASAP?

About the only thing I can't see is the Russians somehow managing to hang on to this possession. Its value would become obvious long before Russia had anything remotely resembling the presence in the Pacific necessary to avoid losing the colony to any country with a Navy capable of floating.
 

Susano

Banned
Russias one of the Five European Great Powers. It doesnt need a fleet to hold California, it simply could start a major war if its possessions are attacked. That should hold back all contenders. The only real problem would at worsz be the landside and hence the USA...

Russian California? Well, it would of course have implciations on North America, but less so on RUssia, Id say - I cants ee all Alaskan and Californian gold of the world helping Russia to reform or putd own the internal unrests...
 
Russia HAS a Pacific naval presence - that's why its got a fort there

More later if you want, I gotta pop out now

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Hendryk

Banned
Since the Russians wouldn't trust a Mexican, American or British workforce to exploit the gold fields, lest their respective countries claim the region for themselves, and since bringing Russian workers halfway around the globe if going to be quite a hassle, Russia may have to bring in Chinese workers.

Before long California may look like a Russian analog to British Singapore.
 
Since the Russians wouldn't trust a Mexican, American or British workforce to exploit the gold fields, lest their respective countries claim the region for themselves, and since bringing Russian workers halfway around the globe if going to be quite a hassle, Russia may have to bring in Chinese workers.

A good section of the "Russian" population in Alaska was Finnish, for a big part because a major slice of Russian long-distance trade was in Finnish hands at the time. This from a Finnish genealogy site, www.genealogia.fi:

"The second contribution of the Finns - together with the Russians - was made in connection with the Alaskan undertaking. This was begun by Russia at the end of the 18th century; but it was not till Finland had come under Russia in 1809 that the Finns had an opportunity of taking part in it. Lieutenant - later Admiral - A. A. Etholen, who had qualified at Finland's Naval Academy, served as Captain on the ships of the Russian Fur Company trading with Alaska, and was appointed Governor of that province in 1839. He took up residence there in 1840 bringing with him a Finnish pastor, Uno Cygnaeus, who afterwards became famous as the founder of our elementary school system. The fact of his going there indicates that there must have been Finns in that country already at that time, and subsequently they moved over in greater numbers.


A branch of this company, called the Russo-Finnish Whale Trading Co., was established at Turku (Åbo) in 1849 for the purpose of trading in Alaskan produce, and in the ships of this company - including the "Suomi", the "Turku" the "Sitka", and the "Atka" - more contingents of Finns, especially from the vicinity of Turku, emigrated. Etholen's executive official was a Finn, Lt. T. Bartram. The Captains of the ships were Finns, e. g. Gustaf Nybom and D. A. Grönberg, and the crews were of course mostly Finns too. Later, in 1859, another Finn - Capt. Johan Hampus Furuhjelm - became Governor of Alaska. The Finnish population in this province reached its highest number - about 500 - in the 1860's. The whole enterprise was prosperous, but the Crimean War of 1854-55 had a harmful effect on it, and finally, in 1867, Russia sold Alaska to the United States. Some of the Finns then returned to their home country, some went to the United States, while others remained in Alaska, mostly becoming assimilated with the rest of the population.


The third period of emigration was during the famous Californian gold rush of 1848-50, when Finnish sailors, especially in San Francisco, were lured by dreams of wealth to desert and become part of the motley crowd of gold-seekers."


The OTL Finnish migration to America really got going after the American Civil War, thus if Alaska and California are in Russian hands at that time, California will receive a much larger Finnish (plus Ingrian and Baltic) population than it had IOTL. In the overall picture, this is not much initially but eventually the divergence would probably bring about some interesting butterflies.
 
Not remotely big enough to take on the RN or the French Navy for that matter.

It doesn't matter. Its enough to protect their interests, short of anyone being willing to start a war over the matter.

If you're a British commander with a couple of ships of the line you don't look at the Russians sitting in their base and think, oh there's only a couple of frigates, I'll sink them. Contrariwise, if you're the Russian commander and someone else is infringing on your established rights you don't duck out of the confrontation because you're afraid you're going to get sunk. You aim for it to be a demonstration of your will, and as such only a country willing to start a war is going to directly challenge you

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
It doesn't matter. Its enough to protect their interests, short of anyone being willing to start a war over the matter.

If you're a British commander with a couple of ships of the line you don't look at the Russians sitting in their base and think, oh there's only a couple of frigates, I'll sink them. Contrariwise, if you're the Russian commander and someone else is infringing on your established rights you don't duck out of the confrontation because you're afraid you're going to get sunk. You aim for it to be a demonstration of your will, and as such only a country willing to start a war is going to directly challenge you

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

The point is that if GB is willing to fight a war over it the RN will win.
 
The point is that if GB is willing to fight a war over it the RN will win.

Well, I never doubted that, but I just don't think its very likely. If Britain goes to war with Russia then I think California, gold or no gold, is going to be only a very small part of the puzzle, and that the larger reason would lie somewhere else, presumably in the Med, or Ottoman possessions or in Central Asia

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
You'd need a complete overhaul of Russian government's attitudes. They held back the Russian entrepreneurs and adventurers by not acknowledging their attempts to establish a proper colony with an agricultural base in the region for about a century up to that point.

They just didn't see America as important.

The Russians could easily get a pacific naval presence if they wanted it, and during the Napoleonic wars they could have easily seized large chunks of the coastline.

Who was going to oppose them? The Spanish and the French were left without a navy, while the Russians were allied with the British and were easily the second naval power in the world during those few years.

But they chose to bank their political clout for expansion in Europe instead.
 

The Sandman

Banned
Well, I never doubted that, but I just don't think its very likely. If Britain goes to war with Russia then I think California, gold or no gold, is going to be only a very small part of the puzzle, and that the larger reason would lie somewhere else, presumably in the Med, or Ottoman possessions or in Central Asia

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

So instead of their embarrassing failure at Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky in OTL, the British seize Russian California during the Crimean War.

Or either Mexico or the USA goes for it. Neither one has much of anything that Russia can reach, and the European powers are likely to sit on their hands if Russia loses California to an American nation because weakening Russia without strengthening any other European nation is in their strategic interests at the time.

Especially Britain's.
 

Susano

Banned
Since the Russians wouldn't trust a Mexican, American or British workforce to exploit the gold fields, lest their respective countries claim the region for themselves, and since bringing Russian workers halfway around the globe if going to be quite a hassle, Russia may have to bring in Chinese workers.
I know youd like that ;) , but the Russians were not exactly free of racist prejudices, either. They could use California to deptr unruly Poles, Ukrainians etc. there...
 
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