Tsarevich Nicholas lives

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by CaliGuy, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:25 AM.

  1. CaliGuy Banned

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  2. Jonathan Corbynite with fire in heart & food in belly

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    There is little to go on regarding his personality. Apart from happily traveling around Europe, we can't really assume what type of Tsar he will be.

    We already know that his fiancé Princess Dagmar of Denmark can bare the act of child birth, and is happy about living in Russia. They might even have more kids as he love for Nicholas was stronger.

    It would be interesting to see what happens to Alexander in this time line.

    I could imagine a British princess such as
    - Princess Helena
    -Princess Louise, Duchess of Argyll
    This would be to show no bias to Russia as Victoria already married her eldest daughter to the German throne and her heir Edward, Prince of Wales was married to Princess Alexander of Denmark and sister of Princess Dagmar.
     
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  3. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    No way is Victoria wasting a daughter on a younger son of the Russian czar - even less so if Albert's already dead. Thereafter she wanted her daughters to stay at home and keep her company (a la Queen Charlotte), a Russian grand duke can't be domesticated like a prince of Schleswig-Holstein-whatever or a prince of Battenberg.

    Chances are good that OTL Alexander III either marries the Oldenburg princess (Ekaterina Petrovna) that Nikolai was previously engaged to, or the lady-in-waiting to his mother that he was in love with (@Valena might know who this lady is).
     
  4. Valena Well-Known Member

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    The lady-in-waiting is disqualified since by Pauline law morganatic marriages are not a thing (or a thing that results in disqualification from succession line) (I was unable to find who she was).
    The Oldenburg princess seems fine to me.
     
  5. Jonathan Corbynite with fire in heart & food in belly

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    I chose a middle daughter ones that were married off. Helena was rumoured to have had a lover. Victoria would want her married off and to a strong Russian prince and army officer, it keeps Europe at peace and Helena out of trouble.
     
  6. JonasResende Well-Known Member

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    You sure it was Helena? I was always under the impression that Louise was the "wild child" of the girls. Taking sculpting classes, being caught in a compromising situation with her one teacher, and possibly having an illegitimate child if the rumours are to be believed.
     
  7. Jonathan Corbynite with fire in heart & food in belly

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    .

    Princess Helena began an early flirtation with her father's former librarian, Carl Ruland, following his appointment to the Royal Household on the recommendation of Baron Stockmar in 1859. He was trusted enough to teach German to Helena's brother, the young Prince of Wales, and was described by the Queen as "useful and able".

    When Victoria discovered that Helena had grown romantically attached to a royal servant, he was promptly dismissed back to his native Germany, and he never lost the Queen's hostilitY.

    Following Ruland's departure in 1863, Victoria looked for a husband for Helena. However, as a middle child, the prospect of a powerful alliance with a European royal house was low. Her appearance was also a concern, as by the age of fifteen she was described by her biographer as chunky, dowdy and double-chinned.
     
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  8. Valena Well-Known Member

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    By the way, on subject of Nicholas ruler qualities - it was reported by his teacher, that had he been not-Royal born, he would have been a fine lawyer, exceling in respective subjects, and by words of the same teacher he was quite a liberal-minded person. From Chicherin's political views we can extrapolate a lot of what he would be.
    However, there MAY be some conservative backlash if things regarding his Dad's assassination, and, before this, his second morganatic family, run as OTL. Backlash against Alexander II second family may ruin all the chances for OTL Alexander III to marry morganatically. Ekaterina of Oldenburg is a confusing situation, given that Nicholas was the one in love with her, and having your "big little bro" marry your former beloved one may be psychologically upsetting.

    Regarding Helena, I'm interested in this idea. Much better than a politically awkward match with the nobody which was confusing for British alliance system (Victoria might have just as well married her to a subject, as she did with Louise, that would have been less harmful).
     
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  9. Aphrodite Well-Known Member

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    The lady in question is Princess Maria Elimovna Meshcherskaya. She dies in 1868, so even if Alexander does marry her it won't last long

    We shouldn't take the Pauline laws too seriously as the Romanovs never did.

    First, while the Pauline laws are supposedly non-amendable, only the Tsar could interpret them or indeed decide if Paul's decree was even valid. Nicholas II did amend them in regards to granddaughters of Tsars

    Second, we know what Alexander II and Alexander III's attitude towards them was- which is not much. Alexander II married the Princess Yekaterina Mikhailovna Dolgorukova morganitically though he legitimized his children by her. There is good evidence that he was planning her coronation as Empress when he died

    Third, Alexander III allowed his brothers Sergei and Vladimir to marry non-Orthodox wives. Their conversions were later and voluntary. They were always considered in the line of succession. There were questions about Vladimir's children which caused his wife to convert late

    Alexander III did insist that Alexandra convert to Orthodoxy which caused some problems
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 2:13 PM
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  10. desmirelle director of admissions, brookview sanitarium

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    Since most royal didn't marry for love, but for power. If Dagmar marries her fiancé because he doesn't go to Europe in 1865 and doesn't die, his former girlfriend wedding his younger brother won't be that weird in those circles. Awkward, maybe - but not for long - but not weird.
     
  11. desmirelle director of admissions, brookview sanitarium

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    And I want the Tsar to modify the Pauline Laws; if Paul has a problem with it, let him rise from the dead and take it up with Nixa......
     
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  12. CaliGuy Banned

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    So, could we see Nicholas agreeing to the creation of an advisory Duma after the assassination of his father* in this TL?

    *Assuming that this assassination isn't completely butterflied away in this TL, that is. (Of course, I think that it is unlikely that it would be completely butterflied away since the Narodnaya Volya would have probably kept trying to kill Tsar Alexander II until they succeeded. :()
     
  13. Valena Well-Known Member

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    I think yes.

    Regading the personal life, no to morganatic marriage of Alexander, since the mess his father was creating in personal life was becoming embarassing for the whole family (the elder children of Alexander II were less than found of Princess Yurievskaya). OK to Princess of Oldenburg, despite the awkwardness. Unless anybody looks around for alliances and proposes interesting brides. He is no heir, so unless the girl in question is a commoner, like "new mommy", I don't see Nicky bothering much with personal life of his brother.
     
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