Tsar Puppet in Nazi Occupied Russia?

This is just an idea I was thinking of. Could Hitler have installed a puppet Tsar in Russia? I know he didn't like the German Kaiser, and I'm not saying he should instal the actual pretender (at the time Vladimir Cyrillovich) but maybe he could instal a kind of 'look-a-like' or even the previous German Kaiser? I'm not sure myself but I was thinking that while the 4 Reichskommissariats in Russia (Ukraine, Ostland, Moskau and Kaukasus) are under direct German rule, after a peace treaty is made with the Soviets the land occupied by the Germans up to the Ural's would be under 'Tsar rule' while east of the Ural's is Soviet.

I know this probably isn't a viable idea but it was just a thought.
 
Hitler wanted direct control of Russia and wouldn't have allowed a Tsar, not even a puppet one. Now if Hitler is wacked shortly after June 22nd 1941, Goering would have succeeded him. Goering was not a hardcore nazi like Heydrich or Himmler (whose SS power base was still small in '41 compared to '43). Goering was more of a Wilhelmine aristocrat, bourgeois imperialist and probably could have settled for a puppet Tsar in occupied Russia (not in the least to give some extra legitimacy for what the Germans are doing i.e. an anti-communist crusade).
 
This is just an idea I was thinking of. Could Hitler have installed a puppet Tsar in Russia? I know he didn't like the German Kaiser, and I'm not saying he should instal the actual pretender (at the time Vladimir Cyrillovich) but maybe he could instal a kind of 'look-a-like' or even the previous German Kaiser? I'm not sure myself but I was thinking that while the 4 Reichskommissariats in Russia (Ukraine, Ostland, Moskau and Kaukasus) are under direct German rule, after a peace treaty is made with the Soviets the land occupied by the Germans up to the Ural's would be under 'Tsar rule' while east of the Ural's is Soviet.

I know this probably isn't a viable idea but it was just a thought.

No, not viable. Just because most organisations supporting the Russian monarchy after WW2 were fascist doesn't mean most fascist organisations supported the Russian monarchy. The Nazis wanted to destroy Russia as a nation with a political influence, reducing it to a race of slaves. They would not permit any kind of de-jure statehood for the Russians, and certainly not a Russian ruler.

Now in the long term there is some possibility that this could change, but even if they weren't going tio tolerate some sort of quisling regime in rump-Russia, a Tsarist one has all sorts of bad implications for them. Even the name of the organisation, "Tsar of all the Russias", is nationalist and, where a Germany ruling the Ukraine is concerned, "irredentist".

I don't how a "lookalike" is any better than Kyril himself, and the Kaiser? Whut?

Hitler wanted direct control of Russia and wouldn't have allowed a Tsar, not even a puppet one. Now if Hitler is wacked shortly after June 22nd 1941, Goering would have succeeded him. Goering was not a hardcore nazi like Heydrich or Himmler (whose SS power base was still small in '41 compared to '43). Goering was more of a Wilhelmine aristocrat, bourgeois imperialist and probably could have settled for a puppet Tsar in occupied Russia (not in the least to give some extra legitimacy for what the Germans are doing i.e. an anti-communist crusade).

As I said, I'm unsure about even that. It's the most plausible idea, but even if Goerring actually manages to get control of Russia proper (Germany actual reaching the Urals is most unlikely in any scenario), I rather feel the Russian monarchy would have been considered too much of a Russian nationalist deal.
 

Susano

Banned
I dont think you understand how Nazism worked, gamb., Hitler wanted to exterminate Russia, to gain his Lebensraum. He was willing to compromise and be pragmatic about a lot of stuff, but the Lebensraum ideology is, besides the antisemitism, pretty much at the core of Nazi ideology...
 
I dont think you understand how Nazism worked, gamb., Hitler wanted to exterminate Russia, to gain his Lebensraum. He was willing to compromise and be pragmatic about a lot of stuff, but the Lebensraum ideology is, besides the antisemitism, pretty much at the core of Nazi ideology...

Exactly. Even if physically destroying them was dropped, the idea that the "untermensch" would be permitted a government headed by a Slav would have been a non-starter. As I said, I doubt even a "moderate" fascist government would have been cheesed with the idea.

Anyway, its not like the Tsar was a universal rallying point for Russian anti-communism. There were plenty of White emigre organisations that didn't want anything to do with him (just as there had been many White armies which didn't). It wasn't like he was the only possible alternative to Stalin.
 
I had a feeling the idea wasn't a good one, by the Kaiser I meant the pretender 'Wilhelm III' or his son Louis Ferdinand. 'Wilhelm III' I thought might've been plausible as he quite liked the Nazi Party up until he realized that they wouldn't install him as the Monarch, and he and his son both married into the Russian Royal Family. Maybe Goering could install one of them. Also (though I didn't explain it very well) this wouldn't be a permanent state, it would just be there as a kind of 'buffer state' between the Soviets and Germans while the Reichskommissariats are being resettled. Though as you say the Nazi Ideology would never allow for this, thanks anyway though. :)
 
I had a feeling the idea wasn't a good one, by the Kaiser I meant the pretender 'Wilhelm III' or his son Louis Ferdinand. 'Wilhelm III' I thought might've been plausible as he quite liked the Nazi Party up until he realized that they wouldn't install him as the Monarch, and he and his son both married into the Russian Royal Family. Maybe Goering could install one of them. Also (though I didn't explain it very well) this wouldn't be a permanent state, it would just be there as a kind of 'buffer state' between the Soviets and Germans while the Reichskommissariats are being resettled. Though as you say the Nazi Ideology would never allow for this, thanks anyway though. :)

Well, a Nazi puppet state, expecially under the rule of a German Nazi, isn'tgoing to command any more support among Russians than Nazi rule, which is what, ideologically, the Nazis were all about.

The RKs were slated to include all of Russia west of the Urals once it was conquered. After all, plans existed for one called "Muscovy", and without Moscow what exactly does the Cisuralian Russia consist of? And of course the Nazi colonisation plans were pretty absurd.
 
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