Triune Executive of the U.S.

[The Professor]

In a recent DBWI I created the character of Daniel Blaine Williams I as the hero of the ARW who later helped set up the Triune Executive Office of the United States.
Assuming such an office is created I have some queries:

Roles

• What exactly would it be called?
• Are the roles of the office joint/shared or divided?
• How would the above impact eligibility, separation of powers, etc?

Elections

• How are the "triunes" elected?
  • Term limits
  • Offset or single multiple election
  • Could they be successive? Eg 3rd becomes 2nd becomes 1st
• What is the eligibility of Candidates?

Evolution

• How would the office grow or change? Eg cabinet, problems and solutions, appointments
• Effects on and by the rise of political parties?

 

[The Professor]

Any ideas?

 

[Landmass Wave]

It's fairly open ended. You could gave co-presidents who make decisions by a majority vote (with a unanimous vote required for some decisions). Or you could have a ceremonial head of state who does ribbon cutting, a domestic policy President, and a foreign policy President who does the OTL secretary of state job.

You could elect them together or with the Senate classes, or do like OTL Kiwanis clubs and have the immediate past, current, and next President serve together.

Political parties would likely develop the same way due to single member districts.

Term limits depend on the breakdown of duties. In the 3-2-1 succession system, each person steps up when it's his turn so it isn't possible to succeed yourself. In the division of labor system, the ceremonial president can pretty much serve forever since the position has no real power. The domestic policy presidency is most likely to be term limited. The Secretary of State position will, at least in the beginning, involve less disagreement and parties will want it more for symbolic value.

The electoral college could choose the foreign policy executive with the popular vote choosing the domestic policy executive. The symbolic head of state can be elective or even hereditary (yuck).

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

What exactly would it be called?

- Triumvirate
- Tribunate
- Two Consuls + one Censor
- Three Consuls (with a first one maybe)
- President and two Vice-Presidents
- three Co-Presidents
- one Secretary of State for foreign affairs, one Comptroller for treasury and one General of the Union for war
You know, there are many options available.

How would the above impact eligibility, separation of powers, etc?

You might see a stronger executive branch since separation of powers now takes place within the executive and not between legislative and executive power.

Term limits

The four years of the president were actually already quite long for the standards of the time, given that state governors served only for two or three years and state legislatures were elected for a term of one year.
So I would say three years as a term for the Triumviri. Each year, a new Triumvir is elected. So each year, the majority within government can change.

How are the "triunes" elected?

By the Electoral College I suppose. Best method to gain both the small and the large states for the new constitution.

 

[Lampiao]

What exactly would it be called?

I like the Swiss term Federal Council, but they are more than three.

IMHO, This triumvirate model will inevitably lead to Lebanon-like informal agreement, e.g if two consuls are northerners, the other one will be a southerner and vice-versa. Of course, this informal agreement will be eventually be broken creating social unrest and an early Civil War.

 

[The Tai-Pan]

Edmund Randolph actually suggested this at the OTL Constitutional Convention. Might be a good place to start?

 

[The Professor]

Edmund Randolph actually suggested this at the OTL Constitutional Convention. Might be a good place to start?

What set up did he suggest?

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

Edmund Randolph actually suggested this at the OTL Constitutional Convention. Might be a good place to start?

What exactly did he propose?

I think a good POD could be Washington dying during the Convention, because then there wouldn't be a obvious candidate for the Presidency.

 

[The Tai-Pan]

I may explore the idea in my own timeline, where Washington dies of yellow fever at the Convention....at least in the south.

However, according to my source, Miracle of Philadelphia by Catherine Bower, he merely argued it against James Wilson (who was in favor of a strong single executive). There are no details and Randolph may very well not have provided any, as it was not formally submitted.

Also, I found a google book that listed every single proposed Amendment Congress has ever brought up (even if it was just one guy talking). And a triune executive was mentioned there once or twice as well. I think it had slightly more detail there.

Edit: Found the book

The proposed amendments to the Constitution of the United States during the first century of its history

Herman Vandenburg Ames


It is a great read.

 

[Alstein]

I could see this:
They are called Consuls with the one with most tenure being the Senior Consul.

Election every 2 yrs, 6 yr terms, with Consuls also serving on the Senate.

If a Consul dies the Senate picks the replacement

 

[Alexander Helios]

Or the government could function like this:

Triumvirate (10 year term; you can be elected as many terms as you want; the candidates are voted on by the states. The top candidates from each state(s) will be sent to the Senate, to decide which of the candidates will be elected. Majority rules. Triumvirs serve in the senate as co-heads. They have direct command of the military. If a Triumvir dies, the Senate can choose a replacement.

​

Senate- Two senators from each state; they act as representatives for their respective state; appointed by governor. They represent their state decision on who becomes Triumvir and other manners.

Governor- One per state; has a year term, appointed by Triumvirate; if it is in the wishes of the Triumvir, he can be re-elected. Collects state taxes, appoints state senators.

Territories- Any territory not incorporated into a state but is a part of the the nation. The people have the rights to serve in the military, become citizens, but not to vote or hold public office; two tribunes will be elected for each territory, then be approved by the Triumvirate. The tribunes represent the state They can be admitted as a state by a vote of 3/4 of the Senate.

Client-States- Any state conquered by the nation can be administered as a client-state, with a figure head appointed by the government. Residents have barely any rights, such as they cannot become citizens, join the army, vote, or hold public office. Their leader is subordinate to the Triumvirate, and can be replaced if necessary.

More stuff on the Cabinet coming soon...

 

[HaroldGodwinson]

Roles

• What exactly would it be called --- The Executive Council. Each member's title is "President".

Elections

• How are the "triunes" elected? By the Electoral College.
  • Term limits One-term limit of six years.
  • Offset or single multiple election One member elected every two years.
  • Could they be successive? Eg 3rd becomes 2nd becomes 1st In case of the death or resignation of a President, the President of the Senate assumes the office.
• What is the eligibility of Candidates? --- A natural born citizen; 35 years of age or older.

Evolution

• How would the office grow or change? Eg cabinet, problems and solutions, appointments The Executive would be weaker and the Cabinet stronger.
• Effects on and by the rise of political parties? Parties would develop similar to OTL.

 

[Lyly]

In the Roman Republic (and also in the Swiss Federal Council), the highest authority of the office would rotate among members each month. Even with staggered elections, I could see that happening.

Alternately, you could have, or develop over time, a Chief Justice situation, where one of the three seats is known to be bully pulpit, so to speak.

 

[HaroldGodwinson]

In the Roman Republic (and also in the Swiss Federal Council), the highest authority of the office would rotate among members each month. Even with staggered elections, I could see that happening.

Alternately, you could have, or develop over time, a Chief Justice situation, where one of the three seats is known to be bully pulpit, so to speak.

I believe a natural leadership role would develop. For example, the first three presidents would be Washington, Adams, and Jay. Washington would clearly e the "first among equals". This precedent would grow over time as often one party would control two seats and the other one. The senior of the two majority party presidents would be the de-facto "first president".

 

[Lyly]

That seems like a generally good rule while also being ad hoc enough to be flexible and allow for some 'fun' disagreements.

 

[HaroldGodwinson]

Let's Do the First Election

1789 Presidential Election

VOTE NOW

 

[The Professor]

Let's Do the First Election

1789 Presidential Election

VOTE NOW

Hmm, is this first election electing them to 2,4,6 terms? Or longer?
How is it decided who gets what?
Since they can't start with the same term length or they won't be offset by 2years.

I'll crosspost the answers in the Triune thread itself since that'll help discussion around formation etc.

Washington obviously gets the 6 year term. Adams gets 4 and Jefferson 2 and they both will be running again down the road, I'm sure.

So under this set up of the 1st election, majority candidate gets 6 years, next majority gets 4, next gets 2. I assume also that the issue of repeat terms isn't brought up until someone has served nearly 12 years?

 

[HaroldGodwinson]

So under this set up of the 1st election, majority candidate gets 6 years, next majority gets 4, next gets 2. I assume also that the issue of repeat terms isn't brought up until someone has served nearly 12 years?

There would be three separate elections.

The Results are in......

Washington wins his race unopposed, Adams and beats Hancock, and Jay beats Clinton.

Washington is elected to the full sixth year term, while Adams wins the four year term and Jay wins the two year term.

 

[The Professor]

There would be three separate elections.

That bit seems unlikely to me considering how long nationwide elections took then. A single Grand Election to elect the first 3 then another election in 2 years to replace "Jefferson", the winner of which gets 6 years, seems more plausible as acceptable to Congress.

 

[HaroldGodwinson]

That bit seems unlikely to me considering how long nationwide elections took then. A single Grand Election to elect the first 3 then another election in 2 years to replace "Jefferson", the winner of which gets 6 years, seems more plausible as acceptable to Congress.

I mean that each member of the Electoral College would cast three ballots. Each ballot would be marked so that it would be clear that he was voting for the 6, 4, and 2 year terms.