Triumph of Xerxes

Hi, Alternate History. I'm new, and I'm here now because I'm wondering what would have happened if the Persian emperor Xerxes had succeeded in his conquest of Greece?

I don't have much so far. I think that this would be about as far west as Persia would go, and if they wanted to expand more, they'd head towards India and China. Rome is growing around now and could eventually be a problem, but I could see Persia allying with Carthage to doubleteam and defeat Rome... I don't know what would happen after that, though. Does anyone have any ideas?
 

Typo

Banned
Persia was not capable of expanding into India and China, they were already at the limits of what they could control, a conquest of Greece is not so much realistic as becoming hegemon over Greece.
 

Giladis

Banned
There are some flimsy archeological evidence that Persian units penterated into Balkans as far west as Posavina. Greece I think would be as far as they would go, considering how much trouble keeping Greece would be.

Also at this time Rome is mud brick middle of nowhere (archeologicaly speaking) no matter what their historic legends would like you to believe.
 
Persia was not capable of expanding into India and China, they were already at the limits of what they could control, a conquest of Greece is not so much realistic as becoming hegemon over Greece.
You're probably right there; China is rather too ambitious.

Also at this time Rome is mud brick middle of nowhere (archeologicaly speaking) no matter what their historic legends would like you to believe.
What about Carthage?
 

Giladis

Banned
Carthage was a developed town/city with its own colonies and a strong grip over the western mediteranium, waring with the greek city states on Sicily and elsewhere.
 
Carthage was a developed town/city with its own colonies and a strong grip over the western mediteranium, waring with the greek city states on Sicily and elsewhere.
All right, then...
Come to think of it, would Zoroastrianism, here, become the world's dominant religion, if socioeconomic circumstances were different enough that Christianity wouldn't naturally come into existence? Or would it rise up under Persian rule (assuming the empire was still intact) as easily as Roman?
 
All right, then...
Come to think of it, would Zoroastrianism, here, become the world's dominant religion, if socioeconomic circumstances were different enough that Christianity wouldn't naturally come into existence? Or would it rise up under Persian rule (assuming the empire was still intact) as easily as Roman?

I suppose you should look up "butterfly effect" here...if Persia conquers Greece and perhaps also messes up the rise of Rome, the world would be different enough by the year 1 that there almost certainly won't be be anything like our Christianity. But if Zoroastranism becomes a mostly "ethnic" religion like in our time line, without much of a missionary or conversion impulse, it probably gets out-competed by something else eventually.

Bruce
 
I've always found it a pity nobody's explored this. I am not convinced that this would be the end of Greek democracy. After all, the Persians tolerated democratic regimes within their empire, when necessary.
 
Perhaps the Persians would slowly start adapting Greek ideas of democracy to other corners of the empire, eventually.
Also, if Rome didn't grow strong enough to expand farther north, the Celts could end up growing into their own powerful civilization that might even extend into continental Europe if given enough time.
 
the Celts could end up growing into their own powerful civilization that might even extend into continental Europe if given enough time.
They already had one. It was was not centralised like the Roman Republic. Instead each of the tribes was an independent entity with the druids providing some form of link between them. In this respect the Celtic controlled lands were very much like the Greeks in that each entity subscribed to some core values.

The problem with making the Celts more powerful is that on OTL political changes rubbed off from the Romans. One example is the change in some tribes from hereditory to elected leadership. Another was the formation of confederations from small tribes in response to the Evil Empire nestling up against them.

This is not to say that these changes would not have happened, merely that the Romans were a driving force in them in occurring when they did.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
I've always found it a pity nobody's explored this. I am not convinced that this would be the end of Greek democracy. After all, the Persians tolerated democratic regimes within their empire, when necessary.

Agreed.

People tend to have this absurd idea that a Persian conquest of Greece, which is possible, would lead to the end of Western civilization. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Many Greek scientists and philosophers had studied in Persia, especially the Ionians. A large part of the Greek tradition comes from Persia.

As long as they pay their taxes, and contribute military forces at the King's call, they will be left alone.

The Ionian cities are a great example. Quite a few of them were democratic in some sense. Until the revolts, the Persians granted them extreme autonomy.
 

Typo

Banned
A "Persian" Greece might not be too different from a Macedonian one actually, there might be a Corinthian league analogue and as soon as Persian power weakens, much of Greece go independent again.
 
Sailing, sailing

A "Persian" Greece might not be too different from a Macedonian one actually, there might be a Corinthian league analogue and as soon as Persian power weakens, much of Greece go independent again.
Would the Persians get a taste for the Mediterranean Sea? Expanding into the Adriatic? Did they have sufficient knowledge of Astronomy/Astrology to navigate the waters of the Med outside of land? Remember, Xerxes lived more than a century before classical Greece, he couldn't draw on their knowledge.
 

Giladis

Banned
Greek and Phoenician colonisation had been going for more than 200 years by then so I would say the Persians could easily navigate the sea through their Phoenician subject as well as Jonian Greeks.
 

Typo

Banned
The problem is the Persian heartland is pretty far away from the med, they will have to depend on holding onto foreign territory to get access.

OTL the Persians did have a navy, as the Greco-persian war showed
 
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