Treaty of Versailles without Wilson?

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Probably no League of Nations. Outright annexations of German colonies instead of League Mandates. No referendas, but Germany punshed, losing about the same territory as OTL. Austria-Hungary breaking up, Romania and Serbia awarded with territory somewhat like OTL. Some kind of Czech state created, perhaps in union with the Slovaks. Poland recreated like OTL, but making Danzig an even more serious issue, since it probably would have been annexed directly to Poland, instead of making it a League administered Free City under Polish protection. Bulgaria losing her access to the Mediterranean and the collapse of the Ottomans like OTL.

The main difference would be no League of Nations, which means coordinated refugee reliefs and international work against slavery would probably not exist in the 20s.
 

Larrikin

Banned
Unless the US President put up something like Wilson's 14 Points, etc, etc, and made the USA co-belligerents instead of allies, the route to armistice would have been quite different.

I think if it had been just about anyone else the war would have gone into a spring campaign and a comprehensive German loss. The other CPs had already thrown in the towel, and were unaware of Germany's negotiations for an armistice. Without Wilson, by November 11 Germany would have been completely on its own, with nothing between the Italian Army and Nuremberg, and the the forces from the Salonika front already on the Danube. The Danube was open, as were the Dardenelles and the Bosporus, to supply and reinforce the combined force coming up the Danube.
 
Unless the US President put up something like Wilson's 14 Points, etc, etc, and made the USA co-belligerents instead of allies, the route to armistice would have been quite different.

I think if it had been just about anyone else the war would have gone into a spring campaign and a comprehensive German loss. The other CPs had already thrown in the towel, and were unaware of Germany's negotiations for an armistice. Without Wilson, by November 11 Germany would have been completely on its own, with nothing between the Italian Army and Nuremberg, and the the forces from the Salonika front already on the Danube. The Danube was open, as were the Dardenelles and the Bosporus, to supply and reinforce the combined force coming up the Danube.



Except that neither of the principal European Allies had any interest in doing so. Foch and Petain wanted to occupy the Rhineland, but had no interest in advancing further. Haig didn't even want that, fearing that his troops would bear the brunt of the fighting in a Rhineland campaign serving French interests but not British ones. Both were suspicious of General Pershing's desire to press on eastward, suspecting him of wishing to prolong the war until the AEF had grown to overshadow the other Allied armies, and American influence been correspondingly magnified.

In short, the only way you don't get an Armistice is if the Germans go batty and refuse to ask for one. If they seek it, one way or another they'll get it.
 
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